Decorative Column Removal

I've had two structural engineers out to provide assessment on whether or not these columns are load bearing. The first engineer said no. Neighbor, who previously worked for builder, said they usually are. Second engineer said they were load bearing. In order to resolve issue, I went to county to check the plans, which were no longer available. Builder would not return messages. County inspector told me to open up a 2 foot space in the ceiling and see what's above, take photos, and he'd tell me. (He said it wasn't worth spending more $$ on an engineer. Nice guy.) Before I open up the ceiling, which includes a tray ceiling, I thought I'd toss a photo out for the community's collective input. It's not our house - but same builder from a couple neighborhoods over.

The scenario: This is a 3 story townhouse. Columns are on 2nd floor (1st floor above grade). We would like to remove the columns, which prevent us from any reasonable living room space. In short, they're awkward, and are a deterrent to future buyers.

Here are the questions:

a) Are the columns load bearing?
b) If I need to open up the ceiling to understand which way the beams and joists are running, where is the best place to look? (*i.e. Should I open up directly above the columns, use stud finder to map out joists?)

Suggestions appreciated.

 

Looks like they're supporting a beam.

What's under these columns on the first floor?

 

Provide us a schematic that shows the overall dimensions of the room left/right and north/south. Provide the overall measurements and then as a sub-category include the relative position of the decorative beam and the location of the columns. Also, let us know what is on the other side of the wall which is on the right of your picture.

 

Below it is a 2-car garage.

 

Right but is there a column under it in the garage or is it completely open?

A column will typically not be weight bearing if it isn't supported all the way to the ground.

 

I'll do the sketch tonight. Here's another photo of the space.

 

Sorry, yes, it's a completely open, finished 2-car garage. There are no poles in the space at all. I honestly can't find anything it would be supporting, unless it's the tray ceiling itself.

 

At the very least, I think you will have some issues with your trey ceiling and the beams that define that. You also may run into some problems with your flooring as it may be cut around the columns.

 

Sorry it took awhile to respond. Work took me international for a few months.

a) Flooring is non-issue, as the entire first floor flooring will be replaced this fall.
b) Garage is completely open below the area.
c) Behind the wall is the kitchen and sun room. Pantry, Refrigerator (with waterline) are along kitchen-side of wall.

Floor Plan Compressed.pdf

 

Some observations and questions:

- Why is the 2nd engineer's opinion that the posts are bearing not believed?

- The posts could be bearing even though there's no post under them in the garage. I assume the garage ceiling is finished and you can't look for a large beam under the post area. It's not important right now what's under the posts, just what's above.

- I would make a floor plan of the floor above and post it here. Keep it the same size and orientation. What we are looking for are any walls that are directly above these beams that the posts are supporting.
Post your drawing even if there are no walls directly above the beams, there might be other clues.

 

I'm seeing a 24' wide house with those columns at or about the 12' mark which would be the correct pot for support beam for most joists sizes. Garages usually have a steel I beam bisecting it for support of the joists system.