Wall removal/Header span?
#1
11-18-15, 07:26 PM
Wall removal/Header span?
Hello all, I'm new to the forum and lack an engineering degree for my upcoming remodel. Long story short, I'm looking to remove a non load bearing wall between my kitchen and living room. The home was built in 1985, Bi-level with 2x4 engineered roof trusses on 24" centers. The wall in question is 2x4 and has no "header" I believe is the correct terminology). I've been told by 2 amateur contractors the wall is hollow and can be removed without the need for added support. However, I would like to have a header for added support. When the wall is gone the span for the header would be 20'. My question is what wood sizes should be used to span that distance that won't sag and do adverse damage? I was thinking double up on 2x12s and offset the joints to accomplish this but also though they might be pretty heavy themselves. Any thoughts?
#2
11-18-15, 08:25 PM
Group Moderator
Welcome to the forums.
So.... just to understand you correctly..... you are removing the wall between the kitchen and the living room and then are going to install a header where the wall was ?
How is that going to look with a boxed in header ?
So.... just to understand you correctly..... you are removing the wall between the kitchen and the living room and then are going to install a header where the wall was ?
How is that going to look with a boxed in header ?
#3
11-18-15, 08:42 PM
Group Moderator
I've been told by 2 amateur contractors...
That's your first red flag. Post some pictures of the trusses above this wall or else get someone who knows what they are talking about to sign off on it. (Structural engineer). 2nd red flag... No you would not splice a header!
If you truly have trusses and if the wall is truly non bearing you don't need the header, period. But that's a big *if*. Not going to say without more info.
#4
11-18-15, 09:35 PM
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I would like to have a header for added support
20' is no problem for an engineered truss, but you should confirm your trusses with an engineer or architect.
#5
11-19-15, 05:13 AM
Excellect feedback guys! The 2 amateurs as I called them were my brother who went to a community school for construction, specialized in material estimating but has limited time in the field. The other was an electrical engineer. I will post pictures shortly of the wall and trusses. My goal in removing the wall was to still have a beam along the ceiling and maybe a couple feet of wall at each end to visually divide the space up a little so we could paint different colors.
#7
11-20-15, 07:12 PM
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I see no problem removing the wall but if you ever walk up there you might crack the ceiling unless you put in some type of support. Keep in mind any header you put up there will create extra load on the floor where it's weight is supported (where the king and trimmer will sit.) Generally you want solid framing or blocking under that area to transfer the load.
I would suggest that whatever you do, use LVL's as your header. An engineer could size it for you, maybe even a salesman at a lumber yard... but much of the size depends on the exact product you use... its weight per foot and deflection, etc. Without knowing the exact product you will use there is no way for us to make a firm recommendation. We generally try to shy away from making those sort of calls. IMO, any double 2x12x20 LVL header would do. Heck, even a double 2x10, since theoretically there shouldn't be any weight on it. But I'm not running the numbers for you.
I would suggest that whatever you do, use LVL's as your header. An engineer could size it for you, maybe even a salesman at a lumber yard... but much of the size depends on the exact product you use... its weight per foot and deflection, etc. Without knowing the exact product you will use there is no way for us to make a firm recommendation. We generally try to shy away from making those sort of calls. IMO, any double 2x12x20 LVL header would do. Heck, even a double 2x10, since theoretically there shouldn't be any weight on it. But I'm not running the numbers for you.
#8
11-21-15, 07:17 AM
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even a double 2x10, since theoretically there shouldn't be any weight on it
Cut a hole in the top of the wall. Try to locate the hole directly under a truss.
- Check if the wall has a single top plate or a double top plate.
- Check if the bottom of the truss is sitting on top of wall or if there's a gap.
#9
11-23-15, 08:46 AM
I cut the hole but couldn't see the truss. Obviously by the picture there's 2 top plates. I specifically cut the hole right next to the entrance in the wall which also sits directly above the interior block wall to my single car garage. The floor (ceiling over the garage) is 2x10 or 2x12's on end, maybe 12" centers running perpendicular to the wall in question. So as of now we have double top plates, and at 16' from the exterior wall I have 3 2x4s directly on top of my block interior wall of the garage below. These 3 2x4s also appear right at the entrance for the kitchen which I'm assuming was on purpose and requires extra 2x4s for openings? Good news is I have scheduled an engineer to weigh in on this Wednesday so we can place our bets 
#10
11-23-15, 08:53 AM
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The double top plate doesn't prove anything and rarely does. All it proves is that they used precut 92 5/8 studs to build your 8' wall.
#11
11-23-15, 10:45 AM
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A double top plate doesn't tell you anything, but a single "might". It's good an engineer will look at it. It's sounding more and more like a bearing wall, considering that triple 2x4.
#12
11-25-15, 10:34 AM
Well the engineer was out this morning and gave me the news...The wall is not load bearing due to the fink style trusses and the wall in question is not located on one of the "V"s on the bottom cord of the trusses. Instead the wall is under the center of the bottom cord and would have caused issues with the lower cord warping if it were load bearing. He said the wall can be removed with not added supports needed. Well worth the $2-300 for peace of mind. Now its demo time.
