Hardening Cellotex Walls?

I have struggled to identify what my walls were for years on here and other forums. Some contractor came in and identified the walls as Cellotex walls.

He advised that they should have really been on the outside and had never seen them used as inside walls.

The main problem with the walls is that they are extremely brittle.

The neat thing about the walls is that they have an R-Value of 5.

With that said, I'd like to preserve the walls and not waste time and effort hanging sheetrock on top of them either.

A contractor came in and added "easysand 20" to one of these walls in an area that I needed renovated. He cited that it would make the cellotex harder.

I do believe he was correct. I mean the wall doesn't feel like concrete but there seems to be some improvement.

With that said, I was wondering if there is some purpose driven hardener for this situation or if I should just stick with easysand 20.

I will NOT repeat NOT be hanging sheetrock on top of the cellotex.

Thanks for the info.

Below is not the wall that I am dealing with, but wanted to let you know the composition of what I am dealing with.

 

Easy sand 20 is a setting type joint compound, harder than regular joint compound that comes premixed I a bucket. Its probably as good as anything you could use. You might want to seal the paper first with a shot of Kilz original in a spray can, or if you want to brush it on, use any oil based primer. If it's really rough, you would prime it, sand it, prime it again... then hit it with the joint compound.

 

Thanks very much. Wasn't sure if the harder wall was in my head or if the contractor was jerking my chain.

It's not perfect, but the walls feels noticeably harder and I have enough other projects to consider.

 

By the way, why would I want to seal it....and also, what do I apply easy sand to the walls with since it will be the entire wall surfaces?

Thanks

 

Torn areas like shown in the pic should be sealed with a primer. The compound can be applied either with a wide drywall knife or a trowel. Which one to use is determined mostly by personal choice - which you have more experience or are more comfortable with.

 

A coat of something like EasySand will make the wall tougher against scuffs and scratches. It will not add substantial strength against impacts from feet, fists, and corners of furniture compared to 1/2" drywall. You could add some additional strength by embedding wide FibaFuse Matt into the EasySand. This is not cheap and you might find it cheaper if not easier to do new drywall. But if you go the FabaFuse route use slower setting EasySand like 45 or 90 to give yourself more time to work the mat into the mud. Might take a second coat of mud only after it sets.
I have run into this in a house about seventy- five years old and it was actually still in pretty good shape considering that it is a soft material. Paint toughened it up. I don't know how the joints were handled but they had not cracked.

 

While I've painted a lot of houses that had cellotex ceilings I only recall one house that used it on the walls. It was a rental and my only job was to paint it up and get it looking decent for the next renter.

While some paints have a harder film than others [waterborne and alkyd are tougher than latex], paint won't add any significant strength to any substrate.

 

Great responses. I think that I am going to have a fun time with this. I am determined not to pull that cellotex down in place of drywall. I went that route once in my living room and it took me 2 years to find the time to get around to it....plus I lost the insulation value of the cellotex (I was unaware at that time). Sure it was nice to put insulation batts behind the new drywall, but the costs outweighed the benefits e.g. mice everywhere and all of that dust and dirt.

I mean, I could hang additional drywall on top of it, but then I have to hassle with the moldings etc and knowing my life a wall could take a year.

The walls in this room are more than likely uninsulated, but I fear that having insulation in might destroy the cellotex, leaving me with a bigger mess.

I'd rather put my money into a more effecient HVAC than insulating walls. A future buyer is more likely to care about that than what they can't see and what I can't easily prove.

Anywho....lots of awesome information here.

Thanks for the information on when to prime. Spots like that on the walls are actually rare.

I am very interested in seeing how hard I can make these walls using the techniques involved....heck right up to the paint types perhaps!

The fiba fuse mat doesn't seem expensive at all to me.

New questions:

1) How do I go about embedding that fibafuse mat uniformly? Is there perhaps some other product out there that is already ground up?

2) What is the difference between the Easy Sands....just drying time? How does one know which to use?

Thanks!

 

#1 - while I've never used the fiberfuse, you basically embed it in the compound. It's main use is for repairing old plaster walls that have multiple cracks. I doubt just adding some type of fiber [if it exists] to the mud would be as effective.

#2 - Setting compounds are named/rated by their drying or work time. The most commonly found ones are the 90 minute, 45 min and 20 minute muds. Despite the name, EasySand doesn't sand as easily as regular premixed joint compound although it does sand easier than Durabond [another brand of setting compound] The newer formulas are easier to sand than what they used to make.


While it is more work/mess, removing the cellotex, inspecting/updating the electrical, insulating and hanging drywall is the best thing to do! The insulation provided by cellotex is minimal, especially by today's standards.

 

When you say embed it....I don't quite get it....hey that rhymed.

I took a look around and it looks like mud tape.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fiba...sDBFEQ_AUICSgE

How would I get any useable consistency with that....or maybe the implication would be to fibafuse the whole wall?

I thought tightcoat might have been referring to grinding it up and putting it into the easysand, but now I think tightcoat might have meant otherwise.

 

I assume TC was referring to the 36" wide [?] rolls of fibafuse. It kind of goes on like wallpaper but uses joint compound instead of wallpaper paste. The j/c is under the mat and goes thru it because it's full of minute holes.

 

Yes, the stuff you linked to is the stuff. I don't know if the wide mat is one yard or one meter wide. Anyway, yes spread on an even coAt and embed it. I have started using it on small.patches up to a foot or maybe sixteen inches square. I cut a piece larger than the new piece of rock by about four inches both ways then cover the whole patch. I am not after more strength.i find it faster to embed one piece of mat than four strips of tape. I do it only because I thnk it is faster. I use a lot of five minute mud. If you get the knack of dong this I think you could have some walls that look like new and have some added strength. To me there's a difference between strength and hardness. Hardness has to do with resistance to scratches and scrapes. Strength has to do with withstAnding impact. The larger in areas the greAter the impact. Resistance. Hitting a wall with a fist is going to do a larger damage but take more force than hitting it with a hammer. Incidentally,when I walk into a boys bedroom and see a poster at about fist level I am not surprised to See that poster covering a fist sized hole.
It would be a little harder to push a thumbtack into drywall than celotex. It would be a little harder to push that tacking of the celotex with some setting compound than without it.

If you want to try it you could add more strength by applying a bonding agent like Plaster Weld or Weld Crete to the wall then applying a coat of StructoLite or ImperiAl Plaster or Unical like. But this is not amateur friendly.

 

Guys is this the right stuff?

FibaTape 36 in. x 75 ft. Extra-Wide Wall and Plaster Repair Fabric-FDW8250-U - The Home Depot

I'll not mess with the stuff that tightcoat said isn't amateur friendly.

So that stuff and some easy sand 90 to give me some time?

What do you all say?

Thanks!

 

No! if you can get it use FibaFuse. The woven mesh you show here is not as user friendly. It will work if you can't find the other but you will work harder to keep it from wrinkling. Start on a small wall and get the feel of it. You want your mud the right consistency, spreadable but not so stiff as to be hard to work nor so runny that it slides off the wall. Then lay the fabric in and trowel from the middle out to eliminate wrinkles. I think there are some videos somewhere about how to do this. Spread your mud as evenly in thickness as you can
There is also a product called Nu-Wall that uses this mat or something like it and a heavy bodied paint like material you roll on then embed the fabric. I like setting joint mud better, it will be harder and stronger and I think cheaper.
Now a couple of things about setting mud. Mix what you think you can use in less than the given set time. Keep your mixing bucket and paddle clean. If you get any set stuff in the next batch it will make it set faster, maybe too fast. Mix with clean water. It might take a coat of mud after the fabric is embedded. Let the mud you apply the fabric with set before you put on the second coat. With some practice your walls will look as good as new. If a second coat does not give you the finish you like then use a ready-mix material for yet a third coat. It is more sandable. Sand judiciously, prime and paint. I guess if you want to you can texture before you prime and paint.
This is not a lot different than putting up wall paper. Do a small wall then come back with questions if you need to.
Oh, one more thing if the walls are dirty, dusty or have a film of grease or smoke clean them well. If they are shiny sand lightly to assure a better bond with your mud.

 

..... and don't forget to rinse off any cleaner residue as that can also cause adhesion issues.

 

Sometimes I think we given information overload.. And sometimes we don't agree. We tell people the best we can then never hear from them again. I think if I were a newbie at something like this I think I would come back with a lot more questions. There is a lot that we do that we don't think to tell people about until they come back and ask.