Load Bearing Wall?
#1
08-23-16, 08:59 PM
Load Bearing Wall?
Hi All,
I just got into my first house and wanted to remove a wall separating the kitchen and the living room. I've been doing my research but just wanted some confirmation that it is a non-load bearing wall.
In the attic, it looks like the house has a truss roof system but when I saw the middle 2x4, I was skeptical about it being non-load bearing. I actually cut a portion of the drywall at the top near the ceiling in this wall in question and saw one 2x4 nailed together to the one right on top of the wall in the attic. The house is a split level house. The wall in question is on the main floor over a crawl space with only the attic on top. If you look at the pictures, it is the wall I drew in green. This wall is in the main level of the house with a square in the picture showing the front of house. There are also pictures in the attic where you can see the 2x4 running below the bottom truss right close to the metal plates below each joist (is this a problem if I remove the 2x4 right beneath them?). Other pictures are there to just show that it is on a Truss System. Please let me know if more pictures or info is needed.
Can you look at the pictures and advise me if this is a non-load bearing wall or load bearing?
Thanks in advance
Attachment 70014Attachment 70015Attachment 70016Attachment 70017Attachment 70018Attachment 70019Attachment 70020
I just got into my first house and wanted to remove a wall separating the kitchen and the living room. I've been doing my research but just wanted some confirmation that it is a non-load bearing wall.
In the attic, it looks like the house has a truss roof system but when I saw the middle 2x4, I was skeptical about it being non-load bearing. I actually cut a portion of the drywall at the top near the ceiling in this wall in question and saw one 2x4 nailed together to the one right on top of the wall in the attic. The house is a split level house. The wall in question is on the main floor over a crawl space with only the attic on top. If you look at the pictures, it is the wall I drew in green. This wall is in the main level of the house with a square in the picture showing the front of house. There are also pictures in the attic where you can see the 2x4 running below the bottom truss right close to the metal plates below each joist (is this a problem if I remove the 2x4 right beneath them?). Other pictures are there to just show that it is on a Truss System. Please let me know if more pictures or info is needed.
Can you look at the pictures and advise me if this is a non-load bearing wall or load bearing?
Thanks in advance
Attachment 70014Attachment 70015Attachment 70016Attachment 70017Attachment 70018Attachment 70019Attachment 70020
#3
08-23-16, 09:06 PM
Forgot to mention the 4th picture with a knee in it is the one that show the 2x4 beneath the spot where the two joists are joined. It is also positioned in the middle of the roof directly below the ^
#4
08-23-16, 09:10 PM
I am skeptical because when I saw the 2x4 right underneath where the 2 joist joined. Is that a problem if I removed the 2x4? Will the roof cave in at that point?
#6
08-23-16, 09:30 PM
Woohoo, thanks for the fast reply. I hope everything goes well when I get to removing this wall. Now I will need to research how to patch it up so it look decent. I will post back a picture whenever I get it done. Thank you again so much
#8
08-24-16, 07:19 AM
I will. I am thinking about nailing that last 2x4 to the bottom side of the truss so I can just screw in the sheet of drywall to that opening. Is that OK?
Also so basically I will be removing all the green walls in my mockup. Will I need to reinforced the truss at the joint or will it holds?
Also so basically I will be removing all the green walls in my mockup. Will I need to reinforced the truss at the joint or will it holds?
#9
08-24-16, 08:43 AM
Group Moderator
You will want to lay a 2x8 flat between each bottom chord of each truss (and toenail it) so that it overlay the drywall on either side of the wall. That will give the drywall good backing as you patch the hole.
You generally dont want to nail walls to the trusses, they are best secured with a clip that allows the truss to expand and contract as needed.
The mending plate where the bottom chord is spliced is all it needs.
You generally dont want to nail walls to the trusses, they are best secured with a clip that allows the truss to expand and contract as needed.
The mending plate where the bottom chord is spliced is all it needs.
#10
08-24-16, 10:56 AM
You can use 1/2" or 3/4" plywood overlapping the drywall on each side of the void left where the top plate was. Use a piece 8" wide or a little more. Screw that plywood through the drywall from the bottom along each side then cut the new drywall to fit and screw it to the plywood as well. This will support the new piece by the existing pieces. and you can forego any toenailing to the bottom chord of the truss. And add a screw to the truss on each side of the void.
#11
08-24-16, 09:45 PM
Guys, I just want to thank you guys for all the advices.
TightCoat, so here's the mockup of what will happen. Put a piece of plywood in place when removing the wall's top 2x4. In the picture, those black sticks on the plywood are screws from the bottom, but what do you mean "add a screw to the truss on each side of the void"?
See mockup below:
TightCoat, so here's the mockup of what will happen. Put a piece of plywood in place when removing the wall's top 2x4. In the picture, those black sticks on the plywood are screws from the bottom, but what do you mean "add a screw to the truss on each side of the void"?
See mockup below:
#12
08-25-16, 12:19 AM
In addition to screwing from th bottom up through the existing drywall put a screw from the bottom up through the existing drywall into each joist n each side of where the void was before you put in the new piece. Put this screw an inch or two from the edge of the existing rock near the void r former void. Right now the nearest screw to the due could be a foot back. You now want one nearer that edge because you don't have he rock from the wall holding it up.
#13
08-25-16, 04:42 AM
Group Moderator
The main reason I would suggest the 2x8 that is toenailed to the bottom chord on each side is because the center of the attic is the primary place that someone in the attic will walk... and when the wall is removed it will no longer be as strong as it once was. I would hate to see the drywall crack the first time someone walks up there. The bottom chord of most trusses is rated for 10 lbs per sq ft when calculated as a whole.
#14
08-25-16, 07:46 AM
TightCoat, I see what you're saying now. Sorry I am kind of new to this housing stuff. More into cars than this but it's about the same if you like doing it.
XSleeper,
Im just a noob at this so bear with me and wasn't sure what toenailing is but google did help
So from what you're saying, the 2x8 will be put in place in between the two bottom chords exactly like my mockup with the plywood. That mean, looking at the diagram attached, A - being the bottom horizontal piece and B being the vertical piece, but in my case A will be on the side of B not at the bottom like the diagram. Therefore teonailing it will come from the bottom of the 2x8 (A) diagonal up and into the lower chord (B)? Sorry, Im just kinda lost!
XSleeper,
Im just a noob at this so bear with me and wasn't sure what toenailing is but google did help
So from what you're saying, the 2x8 will be put in place in between the two bottom chords exactly like my mockup with the plywood. That mean, looking at the diagram attached, A - being the bottom horizontal piece and B being the vertical piece, but in my case A will be on the side of B not at the bottom like the diagram. Therefore teonailing it will come from the bottom of the 2x8 (A) diagonal up and into the lower chord (B)? Sorry, Im just kinda lost!
#15
08-25-16, 09:33 AM
Group Moderator
If you were going to use a 2x8 as backing, it would lay flat on top of the drywall, and the toenails (or screws) would be driven at a 45 degree angle through the sides (the 1 1/2" wide side) of the 2x8.
#16
08-25-16, 11:43 AM
So this is what your were referring to right, please check below, the red sticks are nails or screws? I think that would be hard to screw or nail into right since it is so close to the drywall? But I kinda see what is going on here so What we are basically doing is fill in the gap between each truss and bridge it with a block in between to give it more of a bond right?
#17
08-25-16, 11:48 AM
xsleeper, good call. I can see it now. Someone is in the attic sees that nice wide walk board that looks like a nice wide plate and steps right through. I am not a good toenailer hence my idea of not doing it. Once the insulation is swept away this can all be done from below. When I went up to put the insulation back I would probably add a couple toenails or screws from the top or sides as well if the truss plate is not in the way.
#18
08-25-16, 01:11 PM
Group Moderator
I would use 3" torx screws, a driver extension and an impact drill.
I dont know what your solid line below the 2x8 is but yea I think you have the right idea. And screw just as tightcoat mentioned.
I dont know what your solid line below the 2x8 is but yea I think you have the right idea. And screw just as tightcoat mentioned.
#19
08-25-16, 08:43 PM
Thank you so much guys, I think I have enough information to proceed with this. I'll let you guys know bout the result whenever I get to it. You guys are the best!
#20
04-28-17, 05:28 PM
Update:
Hi all, I just have some time to attack this project and just looking for another confirmation before knocking these studs down. This is because I've read online that if a wall sit directly on top of columns in the crawl space then it might be load bearing.
Can you guys take another look at the pictures of the crawlspace and the framing without the drywall and advise me another time that these walls are not load bearing and do not need any re-enforcement?
Please let me know if you guys need any more pictures of the walls, attic, or crawl space for a better determination.
Mockup of what it looks like in the attic, longest green wall is the one sitting on top of the columns in the crawl space:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]80182[/ATTACH]
Actual wall over columns:
Walls without drywall:
Crawl space:
More pictures of the framing:
Hi all, I just have some time to attack this project and just looking for another confirmation before knocking these studs down. This is because I've read online that if a wall sit directly on top of columns in the crawl space then it might be load bearing.
Can you guys take another look at the pictures of the crawlspace and the framing without the drywall and advise me another time that these walls are not load bearing and do not need any re-enforcement?
Please let me know if you guys need any more pictures of the walls, attic, or crawl space for a better determination.
Mockup of what it looks like in the attic, longest green wall is the one sitting on top of the columns in the crawl space:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]80182[/ATTACH]
Actual wall over columns:
Walls without drywall:
Crawl space:
More pictures of the framing:
#26
05-02-17, 08:19 AM
Another question I have is why do they do this, toenailing the bottom chords into the wall upper plate? Also what is the best way to remove it without damaging the ceiling drywall.
I just saw this and is there a way to repair this without replacing the whole bottom chord?
Thanks
I just saw this and is there a way to repair this without replacing the whole bottom chord?
Thanks
#27
05-02-17, 10:07 AM
Group Moderator
The truss should not have been nailed to the wall in the first place, a clip should have been used that lets the truss rise and fall as needed. Pull it out with a cats paw or sawzall the top plate off on either side then pull the chunk out.
As for the broken bottom chord, structural engineers usually specify structural repairs. This is so that later when the house is sold (and inspected) and someone questions the repair you will have a piece of paper from a reputable source that you can use to prove that someone qualified has approved the repair method. But if you dont want to go that route, it would probably be fine to simply sister each side of the bottom chord with another 2x4, maybe 4' long, then use 3" torx screws to fasten those pieces to each side. Maybe 12 screws per 2x4 so that you have 6 in each side of the break.
As for the broken bottom chord, structural engineers usually specify structural repairs. This is so that later when the house is sold (and inspected) and someone questions the repair you will have a piece of paper from a reputable source that you can use to prove that someone qualified has approved the repair method. But if you dont want to go that route, it would probably be fine to simply sister each side of the bottom chord with another 2x4, maybe 4' long, then use 3" torx screws to fasten those pieces to each side. Maybe 12 screws per 2x4 so that you have 6 in each side of the break.
#28
05-02-17, 01:58 PM
XSleeper, what do you think of these mending plates? I was thinking to use that for the repair. And yes the second option sounds like the plan right now.
Ps thanks for all the prompt replies. I really appreciate all the information and advises
#29
05-02-17, 03:52 PM
Group Moderator
Probably not. I don't know that those boards could handle that many nails in them, coming from both directions. You would have to use every hole, 8d x 1 1/2" joist hanger nails, both sides. That's a LOT of nails.
Some of those tie plates have spikes on the back side and you just hammer them in. But I'm afraid that might be too much beating with a hammer for the poor truss to handle... by the time you beat one of them onto one side you would probably knock the other one off on the other side. The larger plates (with spikes) are really meant to be pressed on hydraulically (in the factory).
Some of those tie plates have spikes on the back side and you just hammer them in. But I'm afraid that might be too much beating with a hammer for the poor truss to handle... by the time you beat one of them onto one side you would probably knock the other one off on the other side. The larger plates (with spikes) are really meant to be pressed on hydraulically (in the factory).
#30
05-04-17, 07:34 AM
XSLEEPER, followed your advise but I used a 6ft 2x4. But instead of using screws or nails, I went ahead and used bolts and nuts. I think this might just be a lil more heavier duty
I also was able to easily pulled out those nails from the bottom chords to the top plate with just a hammer so that was a relief. Now it's time to tear down these studs. Thanks again
I also was able to easily pulled out those nails from the bottom chords to the top plate with just a hammer so that was a relief. Now it's time to tear down these studs. Thanks again
#31
05-04-17, 02:23 PM
Group Moderator
Looks good. Hope just the one was cracked. Be sure you inspect every one along its entire length.
