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Mounting a heavy object on a paneling wall without studs

Mounting a heavy object on a paneling wall without studs


  #1  
Old 11-25-17, 12:24 PM
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Mounting a heavy object on a paneling wall without studs

I'd like to mount a TV 65" - 60lbs above my fireplace mantle. The wall is tongue in groove type panels about 6" wide each and probably about 1/2" thick. I can find no signs of studs behind the wall.

Would it be safe to mount this type of TV using snap toggle type drywall anchors? The anchors are definitely rated to be able to support much more then 60lbs especially if I used four of them. The TV wall mounts do not recommend installing the mounts if you're not installing them into studs. My concern is the anchors might hold the weight but will the wall material.
 
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Old 11-25-17, 12:46 PM
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Tongue and groove material needs to be mounted to something, so there are studs somewhere, just not able to be detected with a stud finder because of the density of the paneling. You can try rapping on the paneling and listen for changes in tone which will indicate hollow areas (not studs) and more solid areas (probable studs). You can also use magnets and run them along the seams to see where you get some sort of attraction that would indicate a nail in that area. They make magnetic stud finders which are little more than pivot attached to a magnet that stands up when metal is detected. Also possible that under the paneling there is fire rated sheet rock which is thicker than normal. While we can not see what you see, 1/2" wood would do well holding the right kind of screw fastener so you may be able to mount directly to the paneling.
 
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Old 11-25-17, 01:18 PM
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On closer examination of my wall - I have to correct my original post. I don't believe the panels are actually tongue in groove - more likely just abutted to each other. They are actually about 8 1/4"-8 1/2" wide & probably 1/2" - 5//8" thick. I also retried my stud detector and "may" have found studs running horizontally - still can't say for sure. I've attached some photos of the panels with close up of joints

"Assuming" there are no studs - would the snap toggles work?
 
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  #4  
Old 11-25-17, 01:21 PM
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Looks like you could slip a credit card in a crack and slide it up and down. Unless there is drywall behind it. There have got to be some fasteners there you aren't seeing.
 
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Old 11-25-17, 02:54 PM
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Looks like T&G all right. If you flipped the boards it would be bead board. Most likely 3/4" thick. Is there molding or some other detail on the corners of the mantel that can be removed to better visualize what you have. I believe that this is definitely mounted to studs and is strong enough to support your TV. Pull corner molding to verify 3/4" thickness.
 
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Old 11-26-17, 03:52 AM
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To the original question, you need to mount the TV stand to the studs, simply drilling a hole and using some type of fastner to the paneling is not sufficient.

Paneling is likely glued, stapled, toe nailed lightly to the wall and not a structural component.

You may need to remove some/all of the paneling to find the first stud then measure to locate, then confirm the additional studs.
 
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Old 11-26-17, 04:18 AM
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It shouldn't be all the difficult to locate the studs. Most walls are framed with studs on either 16" or 24" centers. Electrical boxes are usually nailed to the side of a stud, removing the receptacle cover should verify that. Further more you can drill a small hole in the paneling to verify if the stud is there. Worst case scenario you'd have to use colored putty to hide the holes.
 
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Old 11-26-17, 05:13 AM
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marksr's suggestion is the proper way to figure out where the studs are. You can also start at the corner and measure 16". This will give an approximate location (within 2 to 3inches) of where a stud should be. Concentrate in that area. From there it's 16" c to c. I doubt you have 24" centers.
 
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Old 11-26-17, 06:52 AM
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Let's not forget this is over a fireplace mantle. No outlets... and often strange framing techniques due to the possibility of fire.
 
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Old 11-26-17, 08:02 AM
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Yeah, there might not be any studs, or at least not in a detectable pattern.
Maybe you can drill a tiny hole in the wood gaps and see if you come up with drywall dust. You could also use that tiny hole to judge the thickness of the drywall.

Some will disagree with me, but if you have drywall behind the wood, I find it perfectly safe to mount a TV using anchors only.

The strongest anchor I have used is called WingsIt. They have all stainless steel screws and inserts and are rated at 300 pounds on a wall.
You will need the special 3/4" industrial drill bit to drill the hole, it's called Apache I think and is sold by the same maker.
The special bit cut a very clean hole, unlike a spade bit.
 
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Old 11-26-17, 08:35 AM
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Xslp, good catch. This is one of those cases that's a good excuse buy those "X-Ray" phone app or stud finder units.

Another reason why I don't like wall mounted televisions.
 
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Old 11-26-17, 10:51 AM
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This is all academic anyway. 60lbs is not that heavy in the grand scheme of things. It's like hanging a heavy mirror on the wall. The only potential problem comes in if the tv mount will be yanked on or extended away from the wall.

Pretty sure you could treat it like a hollow wall and mount through the wood paneling. At 60 lbs that is only 15lbs each on 4 fasteners.

At any rate, how will this thing get power? Or internet?
 
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Old 11-26-17, 10:04 PM
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One sure way to find a stud is to start drilling holes for hollow-wall anchors. It never fails.
 
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Old 11-27-17, 01:41 AM
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60lbs is not that heavy in the grand scheme of things. It's like hanging a heavy mirror on the wall.

Your braver than me to hang anything that heavy without direct attachment to studs, even a mirror would get a french cleat with at least 2 stud attachments, preferably 3. But that is just me!
 
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Old 11-27-17, 06:06 AM
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Bravery has nothing to do with it. Here's a link of some independent testing of various fasteners.

https://www.todayshomeowner.com/test...cture-hangers/

It's amazing to me that a single toggle bolt... often suggested when direct attachment to a stud cannot be used... could hold 300 lbs plus in their test before failing. So when 4 of them are used, I really doubt a 60 lb TV is a problem. (But like I said, if the weight is cantilevered or yanked on, the forces obviously increase). Their tests were on drywall alone... no paneling. I sure with the paneling the anchors would hold even better.

Nothing wrong with over building things. But in many cases it's not necessary.
 
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Old 11-27-17, 09:11 AM
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Not to beat a dead horse, but for educational purposes, here's a video to show installation of a very strong anchor.
The inventor explains why the fastener is so strong and why it will not loosen.

Skip to about the 5 minute mark and you will see him stack 320 pounds of concrete on regular wire shelving attached to the wall using only 4 anchors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsUta8k4mj0

I find this amazing and I trust these anchors when no stud is available.
 
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Old 11-27-17, 09:25 AM
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I would think small lag bolts or screws would hold fine in wood that thick.
 
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Old 11-27-17, 08:23 PM
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I would be worried about the panels being fastened to the wall only with small brads. The TV fastened only to the boards could fall out and down taking some of the boards down with it.

Given a TV mount with a wall mounting plate perhaps 12 inches square, there should be fasteners (mounting holes provided) near the top edge of the plate. These fasteners take the majority of the stress and need to be secure enough not to pull out.

Depending on what it is screwed into, a single lag bolt at the top center of the wall mounting plate could well hold the 60 lb. TV. Because the construction of the wall and locations of studs vary, the instructions will always mention using several fastenings.
 

Last edited by AllanJ; 11-27-17 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 11-27-17, 09:11 PM
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The strongest anchor I have used is called WingsIt.
Well, they are WingIts, but I knew what you meant. I used them to install a grab bar in a tub. The bar came with them and IIRC said something about the only ASA accepted way except for blocking.

I just had to buy a bit (at something like $14 att). You could have jumped up and down on that bar I think, it wasn't going anywhere.

Funny thing is I caught the HD vender for these and other fasteners changing out the displays just this summer. Asked him if I could have the super heavy duty display with acrylic front panel, he said sure, it's just going in the trash. So when I got home to take it apart and clean it up, I got a bunch of single anchors of all the different systems, some were cutaway to show function, but I also got one of those Apache 3/4" bits, which are now going for $17....hold on...looks like Crown bolt bought them out! Now the same bit is $10. Doesn't look like as high a quality manufacture...but who knows. In fact, the HD site lists both depending on how you search...weird.

Anyway, I have no use for either one, so if somebody does need one....completely and totally free...a Xmas gift if you will. And yes, I'm pretty sure this isn't a rule violation.
 
 

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