Second floor ceiling

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Old 05-30-20, 02:30 PM
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Second floor ceiling

I have 2 story house I am remodeling the second floor and based on what I see from the roof pitch and location, I would say the collar ties are probably the second floor ceiling joists. And the first floor ceiling are the rafter ties.

I already am down to the bones and do not see any collar ties above the second floor ceiling but would like to raise the ceiling instead of having dead space.

If I just install new 2x6 collar ties above the current ones at the new ceiling height I want, can I just remove the old ones?

And I assume there is special collar tie wood and not just standard 2x6.
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Last edited by DIY4EVERYTHING; 05-30-20 at 02:42 PM. Reason: Photos
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Old 05-30-20, 02:34 PM
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Not too many of us like to give structural advice sight unseen. The instructions for posting photos is at the top of every forum. Or you can just include a link.
 
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Old 05-30-20, 02:47 PM
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Raise ceiling

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Here are some photos of the roof. All I did was remove the old plaster ceiling. Originally it was just because I wanted to remove the lead paint. But since I got the ceiling off may as well raise

I am not sure what happen to first post

I want to raise what I believe are the collar ties to a higher ceiling. I want to simply replace collar ties 2 feet higher and then remove the existing ones. I believe the collar ties are ceiling for second floor and rafter ties are ceiling if first floor
 

Last edited by DIY4EVERYTHING; 05-30-20 at 02:50 PM. Reason: More info
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Old 05-30-20, 03:20 PM
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I dont see any pictures of your floor joist / rafter ties.... so cant comment on that.

But as for the "collar ties" I would say that house was built before the current understanding of collar ties was formulated. It's just a ceiling. And its low placement probably helps stiffen the roof considerably. Collar ties must be in the upper 1/3 of the height of the rafter in order to perform what collar ties are meant to perform... which is help resist uneven wind load and stress on the ridge.

There will be unintended consequences of raising the ceiling up higher: less sq ft of insulation in your ceiling, less cubic area in the attic for ventilation, which will both result in a hotter living space in the summer and a colder living space in the winter. Also by moving them up you are increasing the span on those tiny rafters, meaning they will deflect more. If your ceiling is currently at least 8 feet I would say leave it as is.

Should you move them up? Cant say. But yes, you "could" cut them out and raise them up. No need to get new lumber, just reuse everything that's there. You would be wise to rent and set up a rotary laser when you do this so that when you move them you get them all in the same plane.

That space will be substandard either way... anytime you have attics like that they are unbearably hot... the AC will have to run constantly to keep it cool in the summer. Attics in most places are supposed to have R38 to R49 and you will barely be able to get R13 in those rafters the way it looks. And doubtful there will be room for any ventilation up the rafter bays.
 
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Old 05-30-20, 03:59 PM
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Thanks.

You answered completely. I will just leave them there currently nice to know they probably aren't collar ties and just ceiling joists. Should I put collar ties up since it is all exposed?

For the insulation I am going to put r38 in the ceiling. It does get crazy hot up there. From what you said it seems like not much can be done. Is r38 gonna make much of a difference in the ceiling as oppose to r13? R38 is 3x the cost and if I am getting no benefit why waste the cash.

It is old like 52 I think. Still has lead paint on walls, which is real reason walls came down. I just wanted to replace with drywall and repaint and then update things a little.
 
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Old 05-30-20, 04:18 PM
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Should I put collar ties up since it is all exposed ?
In my opinion..... there is no need for additional collar ties with the rafter ties you currently have.
 
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Old 05-30-20, 07:49 PM
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The majority of heat loss in the winter is straight up through the roof. So yes, it will make a difference. And of course it costs 3x as much, its 3x the R value. And you eventually recoup that in lower energy bills, or so the theory goes. The area that will be R13 is your angled rafter ceiling area. That's what will be the coldest in the winter and hottest in the summer. R value is resistance to heat loss/gain. Less insulation in the attic means less resistance to heat loss. In the summer you ant to keep it air conditioned. Good luck with less insulation. And in Winter you want to keep the heat in. Less insulation let's it radiate right out. An energy auditor would be able to give you the numbers and estimated time it will take to justify the cost. bud9051 does that sort of thing, he's a member here if you want to pick his brain.
 
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