Hot water nipple stuck


  #1  
Old 07-16-12, 05:48 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Hot water nipple stuck

I have Bradford White 75gallon water heater which is 6 years old.
recently after I drained tank, I saw browny rusted water into bath tub about 10 seconds.
I checked manual and found it's about time to replace anode rod on the hot anode combo outlet.
I purchased new anode rod and a ChannelLock's 12" v-jaw plier.
But I could not unscrew the nipple. I sprayed penetrate PB blaster. still could not turn the nipple at all. For 3 hours I only made some scars and dents on the nipple. worrying if I break or make holes on it now.

If I buy 14" regular pipe wrench, will it be better? any suggestion?
Do I have to bring a plumber?
 
Attached Images      

Last edited by sn20202020; 07-16-12 at 06:04 AM.
  #2  
Old 07-16-12, 06:09 AM
P
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 28,360
Received 2,323 Upvotes on 2,066 Posts
Yes, a pipe wrench should work better especially if it's in good condition and has sharp teeth. A pipe wrench grips tighter the harder you pull. Channel locks, while very handy at times, tend to offer less loosing power since you are expending some of your energy gripping the pliers to keep them closed which also can put you in a less than perfect body position for really pulling/pushing on the tool.
 
  #3  
Old 07-16-12, 06:11 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,993
Received 85 Upvotes on 77 Posts
You will need one of these. 18" at least.


blackrocktools.com
 
  #4  
Old 07-17-12, 07:21 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thank you, I bought 18" pipe wrench for $21 which really did its job within 5 minutes without slipping bite.
The old anode I pulled out was totally rusted, I got only 1.5 inch broken anode core.
The other part of anode core, 41" out of 43" magnesium, must be inside of the water heater tank. I won't bother to find it.
I hope new anode rod will last another 5 years from now.
 
Attached Images   
  #5  
Old 07-17-12, 07:43 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,993
Received 85 Upvotes on 77 Posts
What I find is if you let your anode get like this and you don't maintain the heater its best to just leave it.

I have found in my experience once you change the anode if the original is gone the heater often starts leaking soon after.


Why? It just becomes real iffy when there is no rod left, and you change it. The new rod creates some type of reaction IMO. I cant explain it. Its something that the heaters go passive after the original anode completely is gone. Then adding the new rod brings it back into galvanic reactive.

Just my theory.....
 
  #6  
Old 07-17-12, 07:58 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Another question.
My water heater is also working for space heating.
Water heater has output and return pipes on the side.

WH space output (upper)--> expansion tank -- heat fan coil (upper)
WH space return (lower)<-- water pump -- drain valve -- heat fan coil (lower)

When I open drain valve, rusty brown water drained. fan coil is copper. rust unlikely there. So I suspect the expansion tank assembly is rusting.

These are my questions;
Can I buy connect simply new 2 gallon expansion tank with a Tee
without upper black iron body and air vent of current setup?


The last picture's drain valve is leaking water. I'd likt to replace it.
Desolder the old valve by appry torch and pull with a gas torch? or
cut the copper pipe and solder 1/2" to new valve.
 
Attached Images       
  #7  
Old 07-17-12, 08:16 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,993
Received 85 Upvotes on 77 Posts
I will have to look at this more in depth but I could say change that air vent on top of that black air separator at a minimum.

But that air separator is not needed IMO and just the small air vent at the highest point should suffice.

Is the space heating tied into the hot and cold lines?

The space heating from the HWH should have a space heating option on the water heater with in/out ports on the side.

How old is the heater? Its my opinion to rip it all out and install to code compliance. Permits, permits, permits.
 

Last edited by lawrosa; 07-18-12 at 05:58 AM.
  #8  
Old 07-17-12, 12:57 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
2 ports are on the TOP of WH
Hot outlet -->Water temp mixer valve --> House hot faucets & WH Cold inlet
City's cold main supply --> House cold faucets & WH cold inlet &
Water temp mixer valve

2 space heating ports are on the SIDE of WH, (I am not sure if this is separated jacket inside)
WH space output (side upper)--> expansion tank+black air separator+air vent -- heat fan coil (upper)
WH space return (side lower)<-- water pump -- drain valve -- heat fan coil (lower)

All house and HVAC setup is 6.5 years old. I really want to keep WH many years if possible.

 
Attached Images   
  #9  
Old 07-17-12, 01:28 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,993
Received 85 Upvotes on 77 Posts
Is that a Bradford white defender?


Where is the fill valve for the space heating loop?

And drain all, and as much crude as you can out of the heat loop. You should have a drain valve at the inlet of the space heating loop. If not one should be installed.



Can I buy connect simply new 2 gallon expansion tank with a Tee
without upper black iron body and air vent of current setup?
Yes but put a small air vent on the elbow up hi on the space heating outlet above that red handled valve.

The valve that is leaking remove the valve by unsoldering. Replace with a female adapter and get a threaded boiler drain. If it leaks again then its easy to replace.

I have not serviced too many space heating set ups in my career so I don't know the failures related to them that well. This relates to the heat exchanger life, sediment issues, ect.....


What type of water in the home? Well, city?

 
  #10  
Old 07-17-12, 03:52 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
My WH model is M-2-TW-75T6BN Through-The-Wall 2 with side ports.
Almost same as the Defender except Defender has FVIR.
http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/...eets/1001b.pdf
http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/...uals/40819.pdf


There's no separated fill or drain for space heating ports.
Space heating seems to use the same one tank of potable water using.

My water is from Toronto city, probably from Ontario Lake's.

Here's my setup picture I added space heating
I've seen some recommendations that an expansion tank on the cold water inlet side.
Is my expansion tank location right?
 
Attached Images  
  #11  
Old 07-18-12, 05:08 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I checked the expansion tank port's pressure for the first time with a car tire pressure gauge.
Of course it's 0 psi. Label says pre-pressured at 12 psi from factory.
I put air with bicycle tire pump and set to 12 psi. After 30 minutes, became 0 psi again.
but there's no water drops from the port when I pressed port valve.

By checking pictures of the air separator, holy cow, I found it is installed wrong way, opposite water direction. There's big arrow mark under WATTS mark.
Anyone know this wrong water flow affects rusting or big trouble?
Do I need to replace the separator?

I'm gonna replace the air vent & the expansion tank.
and try to change the direction of the air separator.
Things're getting multiple repairs
 
Attached Images   
  #12  
Old 07-18-12, 05:15 AM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 16,321
Received 39 Upvotes on 31 Posts
I thoroughly dislike domestic water heaters used in a space heating application, some jurisdictions prohibit this usage and in my opinion for good reason.

Assuming that water heater does not contain an internal heat exchanger (I seriously doubt that it does) the air separator is not needed. The air vent should be mounted at the highest point if the system. The expansion tank needs to be one for domestic water and it needs to be installed in the cold water feed to the water heater. It also needs to be pressurized to the incoming water pressure or it does no good.

Oh, yeah, the pump needs to be a bronze or stainless steel model.
 
  #13  
Old 07-18-12, 06:00 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,993
Received 85 Upvotes on 77 Posts
Assuming that water heater does not contain an internal heat exchanger (I seriously doubt that it does)
You know I always though they had them built in or a separate exchanger was needed.



 
  #14  
Old 07-19-12, 06:41 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I found my expansion tank did nothing and I don't need it.

Toronto city does not require single home owners to install "Backflow prevention devices"
such as check valve or reduced pressure principle assembly.
and I can not find any suspicious devices between my water main meter and WH.
This means my system is not closed.
Thermal expansion won't increase any pressure into my water heater unless I install a check valve around cold water inlet.

I think I can just remove the useless expansion tank
and replace the rusted air vent.
 

Last edited by sn20202020; 07-19-12 at 07:57 PM.
  #15  
Old 07-23-12, 05:00 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
This is what I've done;

* expansion tank is useless with my non-closed system - removed
* air separator and iron fittings - I found insides are all rusted - removed
* air vent valve is leaking - replaced
* heat coil drain valve is leaking - replaced

With copper pipe, tee, elbow, 1/8 to 1/2 adaptor, 2/1 to 3/4 adaptor and couplings, I could set up the vent valve,
and putting an water leak alarm on the ground.

I hope no more rusts and leaks for many years.
Thank you for all of your advices.
 
Attached Images        
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: