New hot water standards due April 16...question...


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Old 04-03-15, 05:41 PM
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New hot water standards due April 16...question...

April 16 of this year is the date that manufactures must conform to the new energy efficiency rules on hot water tanks. (Existing store stock and factory stock can be marketed until depleted.") That means they will most likely be about 2" to 4" bigger in diameter providing more insulation. And will likely cost about $100 more. AlsoI understand electronic ignition will be required but that pilot lights will still be allowed.

What I don't know and have been asked is if the new standard requires outside combustion air and new exhaust standards (can existing flues be used). And are there any "grandfather" exceptions based on age of home and or location.
 
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Old 04-03-15, 06:02 PM
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I looked up a discussion I had seen on the new water heater requirements. They provided the link below, although I didn't read it completely.
Water Heaters | Energy Efficiency Standards

Bud
 
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Old 04-04-15, 03:46 AM
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Thanks Bud. I read through the attachment but it did not answer my question. I then started to look at some of the links. I'll need to go into depth. Maybe latter today I'll check it out.
 
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Old 04-04-15, 08:30 AM
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I mentioned this a while back, thinking I should go get one and store it until needed. Just talked to Whirlpool rep. and found out that a 40 gal. heater will be 2" wider and 2" taller than current model, he didn't know about the price difference. They have Piezo lighters and still have pilots.
 

Last edited by Ron53; 04-04-15 at 10:12 AM. Reason: More info.
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Old 04-04-15, 01:40 PM
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Ron, you're correct but I think our our Reliance rep thinks the height will remain the same. I suppose you could work out the math. Anyway the question about the flue and combustion air still needs to be answered.
 
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Old 04-04-15, 04:27 PM
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I don't think the flue or combustion are going to change it is just the requiring of more insulation from what the rep. said. I would think that if they have to increase insulation on the sides they would also have to do the top.
 
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Old 04-04-15, 05:11 PM
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Ron,
Google hot water heater codes and there is some good reading.
I tried to pull up the page but it didn't work.
The bottom line is the tank will be 2" taller as will the vent outlet.
If you have a chimney liner that cannot be moved the vent may be going downward instead of pitching upward as it is suppose to. It's one thing to put a new hole in a brick chimney but a liner is a different story.
 
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Old 04-04-15, 05:16 PM
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For?..............................
 
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Old 04-04-15, 05:25 PM
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New tank dimensions compared to old.
 
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Old 04-05-15, 05:21 AM
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Spott, I think you answered my question to a satisfactory degree as far as the flue question. But the combustion air question remains. Many people are using space heaters in their basements or homes and those are using more oxygen along with many homes being insulated to a tighter degree.
Let me ask the question in a different way. In new construction would outside combustion air be used?
 
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Old 04-05-15, 05:43 AM
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Just a comment Norm, but the requirement for outside combustion air is more house specific than anything. No need for combustion air if the leaky house can easily provide it. Yet a very tight home needs makeup air for every form of exhaust. The shift to a water heater that requires outside combustion air is a sealed combustion unit. I didn't see (didn't look that hard) where all new units had to be sealed combustion.

Bud
 
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Old 04-05-15, 07:09 AM
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I believe I have found the best and most concise information here:

NAHB: Big Changes Coming for Water Heater Efficiency. Ready?

National Association of Home Builders

Key points to consider:
55 gal or less will see a size increase of about 2" in diameter and height. As Ron and Spott both mentioned. Current flue and combustion air can be used provided they meet minimum requirements.
Closet installs will require smaller units or tankless heaters.
Sizes greater than 55 gal will require a condensing combustion design. Venting and combustion air will be supplied via PVC pipe from side of structure.

Thanks folks for the feedback and replies.

PS...I found many charts, formulas and rules of thumb to determine if room combustion air is sufficient. As Bud mentions, each house must be determined by its specifics.
 

Last edited by Norm201; 04-05-15 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 04-05-15, 08:31 AM
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Norm,
I glad you found it. That's the page I was trying to direct you to but my tablet wouldn't cooperate.
As far as outside air goes, if your house is that tight you should already have it for your heating unit.
 
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Old 04-07-15, 08:23 AM
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We discussed this some back in December, but the issue of combustion air didn't come up back then. That was a good question.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/wa...standards.html

I think the issue of whether there will be a standing pilot or electronic ignition must be a decison by the manufacturer. If they can meet the mandated efficiency with a standing pilot, so be it, but I don't see how they can.

Gas water heaters will require additional insulation, incorporate newer flue baffling technologies (including flue dampers), incorporate electronic ignition in lieu of the standing pilot, or any combination of these. One impact will be an increase in the overall product size, especially in diameter. For gas-fired products over 55 gallons (≤75,000 BTU/Hr.), fully condensing combustion technology will most likely be required. This will also mean that line voltage will have to be available as will a means for condensate disposal
There is that answer, "any combination of these". If they can meet the standards with a standing pilot, the standing pilot will still be allowed. Something no one has mentioned yet is condensate removal on the fully condensing units.
 
 

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