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braided flexible hose attached to hot water tank relief valve has kinks in it

braided flexible hose attached to hot water tank relief valve has kinks in it

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  #1  
Old 07-07-15, 06:35 PM
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braided flexible hose attached to hot water tank relief valve has kinks in it

I just had my hot water heater replaced and am wondering whether the plumber did a proper job. The tank is in a closet which was built under stairs which lead up to our second floor. There is no drain in the closet and the relief valve discharge line goes into a wall and then runs to the outside of the house. The plumber attached a flexible braided metal hose between the relief valve and the discharge line. and the hose has two kinks in it.

I know nothing about plumbing but the kinks in the hose really concern me based on my experience with kinks in garden hoses. I don't think that the kinks are severe enough to completely cut off water which is being discharged, but they are definitely going to restrict the flow. Also, the Use and Care Manual specifically states that "the discharge line must be no smaller than the outlet of the valve." In effect, the kinks make the discharge line smaller, right? Shouldn't the plumber have attached a shorter hose or one that would have been long enough to not become kinked?
 
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  #2  
Old 07-07-15, 06:49 PM
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Please post a picture of what he did at the heater. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/li...rt-images.html
There is no drain in the closet
He should have installed an over flow pan and if above ground ran a drain outside. If a basement those familiar with basements will have to answer that. Normally the relief valve drains into the over flow pan.
 
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Old 07-07-15, 07:01 PM
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The plumber attached a flexible braided metal hose between the relief valve and the discharge line. and the hose has two kinks in it.
Per code as I know it it must be rigid pipe..

Shouldn't the plumber have attached a shorter hose or one that would have been long enough to not become kinked?
Did you get a permit? If you did, and you should have, the inspector would have failed it. Permits are for your protection.

I assume this was not a licensed plumber?
 
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Old 07-07-15, 07:02 PM
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He should have installed an over flow pan and if above ground ran a drain outside.
AFAIK thats not a code requirement....
 
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Old 07-07-15, 08:54 PM
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I'll post a picture soon, but right now don't have a camera available.

Regarding the overflow pan, I live in a large development with many units exactly like my own with the hot water heater in the closet on the first floor. (I live in Florida so there are no basements.) I assume that all the units are built like my own with the discharge line going into the wall and running to the outside.

Regarding permits, this is something which I need to learn more about. I've never had much work done as a homeowner except for minor repairs. It's not clear to me when a permit is needed or what the process is. I've always assumed that the contractor would get a permit if it is needed, but I'm starting to get the idea that the homeowner needs to be proactive on this. I imagine I should call up the city to learn more about what's involved.

I'm trying to imagine how the permitting process might work in cases where I've got a problem with my hot water tank. If the plumber says I need a new tank, either he or I have got to go get the permit. Is it likely that the plumber will say he doesn't want to deal with the headaches/time involved with getting a permit and waiting to get paid until an inspection is done? If so, then I've got to find another plumber who is willing to go through the permit process. And I've also got to deal with my wife who wants to have hot water ASAP. Is this basically what I'm going to be facing if I go the route of getting a permit? I'm sure it's the smart thing to do, but I can see why a lot of folks would skip getting a permit.
 
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Old 07-07-15, 09:05 PM
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either he or I have got to go get the permit. Is it likely that the plumber will say he doesn't want to deal with the headaches/time involved with getting a permit and waiting to get paid until an inspection is done? If so, then I've got to find another plumber who is willing to go through the permit process. And I've also got to deal with my wife who wants to have hot water ASAP. Is this basically what I'm going to be facing if I go the route of getting a permit? I'm sure it's the smart thing to do, but I can see why a lot of folks would skip getting a permit.
Usually permit is included in price.. Is the plumber licenced? Tell him you want a permit pulled. If he gives a hard time tell him you will pull a permit... Go to the local code office and have that done,,, $50 bucks about...

I could probably find other stuff he did not do. Is there a bonding wire between the hot cold pipes? Is this gas or electric? Venting needs to be 4" now not 3" ... many things. take a pic and I may see more......
 
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Old 07-07-15, 09:25 PM
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Sorry I wasn't clear on my comment about the overflow pan. I didn't mean to imply it was code required..
 
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Old 07-07-15, 09:50 PM
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Here are the pictures. On the top picture, you can see the braided hose with the two kinks in it.

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This lower picture shows the relief valve to which the kinked hose is connected.

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I'm very concerned about what might happen if pressure builds up and the kinks prevent or slow down discharge from the tank. I imagine the tank could explode. The plumbing company I'm using is supposed to be a reputable company.

I'm on the east coast and it's getting late so I'll check for any comments regarding the pictures tomorrow. Thanks to everybody for their input. I really appreciate it.
 
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Old 07-07-15, 10:10 PM
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I'm very concerned about what might happen if pressure builds up and the kinks prevent or slow down discharge from the tank. I imagine the tank could explode
Not to code AFAIK.


What happens id the relief valve may leak some say. Then stop. then leak some. the line hets clogged with rust say cause of kink or back pitch. Then trouuble happens with plugged relief valve..

I saw a heater land a 1/4 mile from the home after coming out from the basment and two floors..

Was in hoboken NJ in the 80's when I was a kid........

Not to scare U but it could happen....Rare but could......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28ixJLtQBCc
 
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Old 07-08-15, 07:46 AM
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The plumbing company I'm using is supposed to be a reputable company.
If they are indeed reputable, call the boss and get this fixed. The boss might not know one of the workers is performing substandard work.

This obviously wasn't inspected because there's no way it would have passed. Codes vary, but basically the relief valve should be hard-piped with 3/4" copper and should be gravity fed to the outside. The gravity aspect alone would be cause to fail this installation.
 
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Old 07-08-15, 09:48 AM
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You know there was no permit because there was never an inspector to do the inspection. It's that simple.
 
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Old 07-08-15, 11:48 AM
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If they are indeed reputable, call the boss and get this fixed. The boss might not know one of the workers is performing substandard work.
I called this morning asking to speak to someone in a supervisory position who could arrange to have the problem fixed. He was not available, but I got his name and e-mailed him copies of the pictures I posted on this forum. I should be talking to him tomorrow morning. I'll post an update after I talk to him.
 
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Old 07-08-15, 11:57 AM
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Another thing I am concerned about is that the man who did the repairs used blue and red stainless steel flexible hoses on the cold and hot water lines (as shown in the picture I posted earlier). I'm afraid that they are more likely to develop leaks than hard copper pipes. When I brought this up, I was told that the flexible tubes are less likely to develop leaks than copper pipes. Does anybody have an opinion on this?
 
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Old 07-08-15, 11:58 AM
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Thanks for the up date.. Yes please let us know...

Also there should be bonding wire installed from the hot to the cold line. This is code.. I believe 8 gauge wire and two bonding clamps...

Electric heaters also needs some form of disconnect box for the electric. Not sure if that's universal of just NJ codes..

I would get a permit and the inspector will tell You what is needed..
 
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Old 07-08-15, 12:06 PM
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blue and red stainless steel flexible hoses
They are fine... No worries
 
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Old 07-08-15, 08:39 PM
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The plumbing company responded to my e-mail and I will be talking to a company representative tomorrow. They appear to be very concerned about what happened and indicate that they will redo the job correctly. Thanks for all the input and advice--it has made me more knowledgeable and much more confident about getting things straightened out.
 
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Old 07-08-15, 09:08 PM
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post back with final outcome please
 
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Old 07-10-15, 08:43 PM
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I talked to a representative from the company on Thursday and he sent a different plumber to make corrections. The relief valve, hot water, and cold water connections are now all hard-piped, and I am happy about how this all finally turned out. I should be able to get around to posting a picture tomorrow.
 
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Old 07-10-15, 09:21 PM
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Outstanding.... let us know!!!!!!!!
 
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Old 07-12-15, 01:29 PM
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Here are two pictures of the connections after another plumber worked on them. All the lines including the connections to the hot and cold lines are hard-piped now. The corrections were done at no charge and the company rep also said that they will give me a discount on the original price I paid by sending me a $50 check.

I asked the plumber why there is a curve in the pipe attached to the relief valve. The prior tank didn't have a curve and the replacement tank is the same make/model. He said that Rheem changed the direction in which the relief valve points and the warranty would be voided if he repositioned it.

Thanks again to everyone for all your input and advice!

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  #21  
Old 07-12-15, 01:51 PM
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He said that Rheem changed the direction in which the relief valve points and the warranty would be voided if he repositioned it.




Wow what a bunch of BS...

Warranty will not be voided. The guy that did that worked harder not smarter.

Simply remove the relief valve, teflon tape it, reinstall, and position it exactly into position needed. Would of took way less time then that mess..

I wonder if that will even pass..

Did you state you wanted a permit taken out? Absolutly should of been included in the price...

I see no bonding wire between H/C lines. Thats the code as I know it..

Also Code now it a disconnect needs to be installed near the electric water heaters. Is the panel close or was one installed? ( Ill pass this to the electricians so they can comment)

If they dont get a permit then you yourself should take one out...

All above was noted in post #14
 
  #22  
Old 07-12-15, 02:29 PM
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I agree with Mike, lots of BS in that installation. The last few water heaters I installed had the T&P valve barely more than hand tight and I was able to take a full turn on them, orienting them as needed for connection to the drain piping. This is NOT something that would void a warranty.

What REALLY burns me is that there is no union on that drain piping. This means that if the T&P valve needs to be replaced at some future date it will require cutting of the copper just to remove it along with re-fitting the drain piping. What should have been done is a short brass nipple be screwed into the T&P outlet, a union and then the copper drain.

On the other hand, you got the work done for free and will (hopefully) receive a rebate.
 
  #23  
Old 07-12-15, 02:38 PM
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You need to talk to the local electrical inspection department regarding the need for a shut off. National code as I understand it requires a disconnect near the WH if you can't see the breaker box from the water heater. All code though is local so you need to see if the local electrical inspector requires it. See Article 422 NEC.
422.30 General.
A means shall be provided to disconnect each appliance from all ungrounded conductors in accordance with the following sections of Part III. If an appliance is supplied by more than one source, the disconnecting means shall be grouped and identified.
You can also use a permanently installed lockout on the breaker box.
(B) Appliances Rated Over 300 Volt-Amperes or 1/8 Horsepower. For permanently connected appliances rated over 300 volt-amperes or 1/8 hp, the branch-circuit switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means where the switch or circuit breaker is within sight from the appliance or is capable of being locked in the open position. The provision for locking or adding a lock to the disconnecting means shall be installed on or at the switch or circuit breaker used as the disconnecting means and shall remain in place with or without the lock installed.
 
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Old 07-12-15, 04:10 PM
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The NEC requires a local disconnect UNLESS the circuit breaker is in a direct line of sight AND no more than fifty feet from the appliance. The fixed circuit breaker lockout device is acceptable if the appliance is not within the previous stated parameters. NOTE, your LOCAL code may be different.
 
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Old 07-13-15, 02:11 PM
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The NEC requires a local disconnect UNLESS the circuit breaker is in a direct line of sight AND no more than fifty feet from the appliance. The fixed circuit breaker lockout device is acceptable if the appliance is not within the previous stated parameters. NOTE, your LOCAL code may be different.
I think I have a local disconnect. There is a switch to turn off the electricity to the heater mounted on the wall nearby. Regarding the other things brought up, I should be able to address them tonight. (Got a few things I've got to get to first..)
 
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Old 07-13-15, 03:27 PM
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I think I have a local disconnect. There is a switch to turn off the electricity to the heater mounted on the wall nearby.
As long as it is in sight and two pole that should be okay.
 
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Old 07-13-15, 06:33 PM
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As long as it is in sight and two pole that should be okay.
Since many here are non electricians ray can you clarify 2 pole in laymans terms? Possible pics?
 
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Old 07-13-15, 07:25 PM
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I mean that it interrupts both hot wires. If a toggle switch similar to a light switch there would be four screws plus a ground screw. If the heater is wired with cable you would have a black and red wire on the switch and the whites connected together in the back of the box.

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Or you may have an A/C disconnect.

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However if you have a single pole light switch with only two screws plus ground that would be wrong.

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Old 07-13-15, 07:34 PM
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Did you state you wanted a permit taken out? Absolutly should of been included in the price...
I didn't ask for a permit. I'm afraid that the inspector will tell me that I need to install a drain in the closet and that sounds like an expensive headache. I don't know how much longer I'll be living here anyways. (The "joy" of home ownership that I've been experiencing over the last 10 years is making me yearn for the simpler days when I was a renter.)


I see no bonding wire between H/C lines. Thats the code as I know it..
After seeing your original post about the bonding wire I searched the web for some info about it and found an article (see link below) explaining its purpose and stating that some local codes require it, including in New Jersey. I asked the plumber about it, and he said it's not required where I live, but is part of the code in other areas of Florida.

Water Heater Bonding Wire - Is it Needed?
 
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Old 07-13-15, 09:03 PM
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555,
It is not your job to try and figure electrical or plumbing codes. You paid for a service and still have questions. That is unacceptable.
This is a classic example of why permits should be pulled and homeowner's should always insist on it when hiring a contractor. Homeowner's should also check licensing and insurance info.

Print out a few of the replies above. Present them to contractor. Don't be afraid to take this to the city or small claims court if need be.
 
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