Advice for Softerner with 1.25" valve outdoors


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Old 08-29-06, 09:14 PM
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Advice for Softerner with 1.25" valve outdoors

Hi,

My house has 1.25" main valve for water and none of the retail store models - Sears, Ge, Whirlpool -- seem to carry a softener with a valve that big.

Also, I think I have no choice but to keep it outside of the house. The main inlet is away from the garage, so its out of the question. The darn Culligan guys quoted me $4000--heck no.

I know Clack has been mentioned repeatedly, but where can I obtain on of these? Can i keep it outside?

Thanks.
 
  #2  
Old 08-29-06, 10:18 PM
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The considerations for placement of a water softener are ...

1. main water supply line
2. electricity to run the control valve
3. drain for water softener when regenerating
4. WATER SOFTENER MUST BE KEPT DRY (electronics, you know) AND NOT EXPOSED TO FREEZING TEMPEPRATURES. Water appliances in general don't like freezing.

You won't find a pre-built box store softener with a 1.25" supply and return. If your house is plumbed with 1.25" supply line then none of the box store softeners will have the SFR (Service Flow Rate) necessary to handle your supply pressure and volume. They will cut down your water pressure and flow.

You need a REAL water softener. You can get a Fleck 7000SE or a Clack WS1 based water softener that has a 1.25" supply and return. You can check your local independent water treatment pros for prices and installation options and costs. In your specific situation you should consider a local company.

What did Culligan recommend as far as installation? What were they recommending for $4000?

Another alternative is a Kinetico softener. They aren't cheap but don't require electricity and have a large loyal following and an extensive dealer/service network.

BUT, before you do anything you need a complete water test. Then you'll know what needs to be treated as that will have an effect on the treatment hardware required. The required hardware will have an impact on your installation options.
 
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Old 08-30-06, 03:49 AM
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Just because the supply is 1.25 inch does not necessisarily mean that your softener needs to accomodate 1.25 supply. I seriously doubt that your house needs that much and it drops down to 1 inch or even 3/4 in soon after the valve. You should assess your requirements, but opt for the larger if in doubt.

The lurker is right and I agree with his assessment of box store softeners. Do a web search for Fleck or Kenetico control valves together with water softener and you will find many online retailers that can offer much better softeners for a lot less. And they do have 1.25 control valves, 1 in valves, etc.

Be aware that although the FITTINGS may be 1.25 in on a control valve the inner workings may not be! Read the technical data on any valve you consider using.
 
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Old 08-30-06, 07:13 AM
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A lot of new home construction (at least around here) is 1.25" supply by code. Lots of bathrooms and a whirlpool tub or two. I've seen 1.25" in the supply and return for water heaters.

Badassfajita is at least on the right track considering a softener that is the same 1.25" as his plumbing. Lots of people would just reduce to 3/4", step back up to 1.25", and then wonder where their water presuure went.

Badassfajita still needs to address his specific outside installation concerns and that's best done in person and not over the internet. I'd at least get a few local water treatment pros out there to make recommendations on installation. If he finds one that he trusts, that treats him right, will provide a professional install with warranty, AND service after the sale at a reasonable price he/she should be considered. An outdoor installation, if possible, at Badassfajita's location will be more complicated than in a pre-plumbed basement or garage and it'll be hard to move it close enough to the phone or the keyboard to get long distance help.
 

Last edited by justalurker; 08-30-06 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 09-02-06, 08:56 AM
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Hi and thanks for the tips guys. Here is a link to the softener that Culligan was suggesting - $4000 installed. It is their only model apparently that has a 1.25" fitting.

http://www.culligan.com/index.cfm/title/Culligan%20Platinum%20Series®%20Water%20Softener/flashID/1/id/73.html
 
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Old 09-02-06, 09:15 AM
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Badassfajita,

The softener is ACADEMIC at this point ... what did Culligan say about installing it outside?

There are softeners that will meet your needs. What is limiting your decision are your installation problems.
 
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Old 09-04-06, 09:32 PM
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Culligan said they would provide a full cover over the tank and electricity would not be necessary.

I just need to get more people out to give estimates to see if they can run a pipe underground into the side of the garage.

Anyone know of a recommended installer in the Houston area?
 
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Old 09-04-06, 09:48 PM
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Badassfajita,

I read some where that "there is no plumbing problem that money can't fix".

I'd check with Culligan again on that NO ELECTRICITY IS NEEDED. According to the owner's guide for the Platinum Series Softener ELECTRICITY IS REQUIRED.

As far as an installer wouldn't you wwant who you buy the softener from to do the job and warranty the softener and the installation?
 
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Old 09-05-06, 12:23 PM
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Culligan does offer a softner that doesn't require electric......it's a tank of resin they come and exchange for you.....ONLY Kinetico has the nonelectric control valve.......make sure you get what you pay for and what you think you're getting.........Kinetico's MACH series will take up to 1 1/2, if needed.......but you need to compare SFR of the unit verses your requirements............sorry mdtaylor, you will NOT find a better unit on the net.........my opinion
 
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Old 09-05-06, 01:09 PM
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jdp38,

I simply checked the URL that Badassfajita posted which is a Culligan Platinum Softener and that model does require electricity.

AFAIK the Kinetico is the only mainstream ion exchange softener that does not require electricity or freuent service. It uses dated and highly critized (by some people) water pressure, which is free and requires no maintainence, to work the control valve.

BRILLIANT!
 
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Old 09-06-06, 03:45 PM
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fajitaman,

Are you on a private well or city water? The other thing I have not read is your water analysis information to help determine the proper recommendation.

In our area (Central Valley, NCA), the Clack WS 1.25 on a 12 X 52 tank and 2 cubic foot resin plus other media requirements will deliver up to 22 gpm continuous soft water flow.

The two biggest disadvantages to a Kinetico system are (1) the extra water used to regenerate over the course of a year versus a efficient single tank system or Fleck 9000/9100/9500 system and (2) the limitations of the metering disk if your water hardness fluctuates (meaning hardness leakage or over brining in the treated water) as it does in our region - if your hardness changes, simply adjust your settings compared to calling the Kinetico service department for a new disk.

BTW, no system is maintenance free. The system's owner's manual will usually include regular maintenance recommendations (besides just adding salt).

So long as the plumbing run is not too complicated, you should be able to find a capable contractor to do the "full line" installation in the Houston area. You may want to check with the regional affiliate of the Water Quality Association for a local referral.

Good luck out there.
 
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Old 09-06-06, 03:53 PM
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fajitaguy,

The Clack WS has a protective cover option for outdoor installations, too.

Art
 
  #13  
Old 09-06-06, 04:46 PM
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What "extra water" are you talking about, Art?
 
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Old 09-06-06, 08:41 PM
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I'm on cruddy City of Houston water thats medium-hard based on a test that I did a while back.

Thanks for the advice to all

signed,
badassfajita
fajitaman
fajitaguy
fajitanything
 
  #15  
Old 09-07-06, 11:04 AM
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Which part of Houston?
 
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Old 09-12-06, 12:29 PM
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Seriously Art........what extra water??
 
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Old 09-13-06, 09:04 PM
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Galleria--Its not horrible actually, just not soft either.
 
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Old 09-14-06, 03:22 PM
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I know the area and the water well.........have you called the Kinetico dealer........the install should not be a problem......they will set the unit pretty much where you want it and you don't have to worry about running a circuit....(Kinetico is non-electric)
 
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Old 04-21-07, 08:07 PM
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jdp38,

You never got an answer on how Kinetico uses extra water...more than an efficient single tank system...did you?

I was wondering what that meant too.

Andy
 
  #20  
Old 04-23-07, 12:31 PM
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Hey Andy,

I was wondering why this thread popped up again........and , NO, never got an answer......Art just kinda disappeared!
 
 

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