Iron removal AND water softener?


  #1  
Old 09-23-06, 04:53 PM
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Iron removal AND water softener?

Hi guys

I see a lot of useful posts here about water treatment. Fleck stuff looks great. I have 3ppm iron from a well, and an old water softener (Maclean US1001) that is feeling its age. I'd like to replace it with a Fleck. But can I (or should I) use an Iron removal system like the Fleck BIRM, KDF or Pyrolox - what's the difference? (I have only iron as far as I know) AND also add in an inline Fleck Water softener? i.e. have both.

Thanks in advance

Chris
 
  #2  
Old 09-23-06, 05:19 PM
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Hi Chris,

3ppm iron is right at the limit of standard resin but fine mesh can do it.

Quality water starts with a COMPLETE water test. Without that you won't know what might need to be treated. There's iron and hardness and PH and lots of other stuff you might need to treat.

Well water treatment is more complicated than being on a water system. YOU are responsible for making the water SAFE and NICE.

Get a complete water test and post the results along with the equipment you currently have so we can help.
 
  #3  
Old 10-05-06, 05:53 PM
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Got some new water tests

In addition to the original results from the water treatment co. (barely legible but looks like in line with the new tests) - measured out of the pressure tank from the well

Nitrates/Nitrites 0
PH 6.0
Alkalinity 0
Hardness 7 grains
Iron 3 ppm
Copper 1 ppm
Chlorine 0

No bacteria, pesticide, lead

Thanks for any help

Chris
 
  #4  
Old 10-05-06, 06:10 PM
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Hi Chris,

Sure, you can have as much stuff as will fit and you can afford ...

3 ppm iron can be treated by a softener with fine mesh resin. you'd need to set up a maintenance schedule to use iron-out or the like to keep the resin up to par and you can use salt (NaCl) that has iron treatment in it.

Your PH is a little low @ 6.

For a household without a high water use appliance (jacuzzi and the like) with 4 people a 1.25 cu ft softener would do the job. Maybe bump it to a 1.5 cu ft and have a little "room" in case your water hardens up. The softener would regenerate about once a week which is about perfect. The Fleck 5600SE is made of Noryl and is completely inert and won't rust or corode.

You can check out this URL for more info ...

http://ohiopurewaterco.com/shop/customer/home.php?cat=179

You have to "copy & paste" as HTML is turned off on this forum
 
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Old 10-05-06, 06:23 PM
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Thanks for the speedy response Lurker

But can I go the whole hog, can I, can I ? (or would it be just overkill)

Like an Iron removal system like the Fleck BIRM, KDF or Pyrolox AND a water softener, in series?

(I like new toys)
 
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Old 10-05-06, 06:33 PM
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Sure, you can go whole hog. The more stuff to fiddle with the better.

More stuff won't do any harm and well water condition can change dramatically at any time. If the iron level goes up you'll be ready.
 
  #7  
Old 10-07-06, 04:21 PM
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Charcoal filter

Local water company just recommended a charcoal filter plus a water softener. I presume that from a deep water well I have ferrrous or 'clear water' iron and it looks that way (i..e I can't see any red color in the water) so I'm puzzled. I am trying to educate myself about the subject so I am a knowledgeable consumer. I read that "No amount of sediment filters or even carbon filters can stop this type of iron. The clear iron simply passes right through the filter" so why would a charcoal filter help?

Thanks
 
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Old 10-08-06, 09:16 AM
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DO NOt install a carbon filter if you are not on a chlorinated system.......carbon will remove chlorine, not iron......with the small amount you have, i would suggest the softner and see how it goes.......
 
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Old 10-08-06, 06:12 PM
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Right thanks jdp

It really makes me wonder about the water treatment company.
By the way I have a well pump that does 7 gpm to fill a 40 gallon
(WX-250) pressure tank. I can't find the specs on that that show how many galls per minute it can discharge at peak flow (3/4" piping). I see the Fleck and other softeners/iron removal systems are rated in gpm inflow. Does anyone know the likely gpm output from the WX-250? (I have asked them by email and am awaiting a response) - thanks!

Chris
 
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Old 12-05-06, 02:22 PM
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Iron Filter

Since I have not figured out how to start a thread, I will add to this one since the topic is the same.

I have 5 ppm iron. I have had an iron filter ahead of my softener. It was all new 7 years ago. After 2.5 years, the iron filter needed a $480 job (I don't know if they replaced it or put new media in it).

4.5 years later, it appears I need to do this again. I called my original installer and he is now suggesting that I put an aeration system in front of the iron filter at a cost of $1500.

I can not seem to find any softener manufacturers with information about an aeration system. Can anyone tell me something about the system and if it is worth putting in?

Ben
 
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Old 12-06-06, 08:12 AM
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What kind of "iron filter" do you have? Greensand? Birm? What is your pH, hardness and any other test results?

Aeration systems come in two types: 1. adding water to air or 2. air to water.

Most residential units add air to water through a venturi device. This forces air into the water line by means of suction caused by water flow through the pipes. The air mixes with the iron and makes it become insoluble which must then be filtered our completely as the softener will have no impact on it other than a partial filtration, which you should not count on.

Sometimes an air pump is required to provide adequate air. At 5ppm iron, this would probable be recommnended.

The air/water mixture requires retention time to permit the iron to particulate and settle.

THe venturi is often placed before the pressure tank for two reasons:
1. The flow of water will be consistant as it fills the PT from the well. This will allow maximum amounts of air to mix with the water. After the pressure tank may not work since you use so little water whenever you, say, brush your teeth.

2. The pressure tank acts as a retention system giving time to react. Most often an additional retention tank or a mixing/blending device is needed. Figure a contact time of 20 minutes.

Then a backwashing filter would be needed to remove the solid iron and prevent it from flowing into the softener and furthermore, into the service water. Backwash often.

Good points are the systems are less expensive, generally, than other iron removing systems, no chemicals are added and it may solidify other minerals in the process.

Bad points are the venturi may need constant cleaning, the aerator may work only partially, and flushing the retention tank should not be ignored.

A chem-feeder using an oxidizer may be an option as well. Some will sanitize your water in addition to settling out the iron.

Hope this answred some of your questions.

Andy
 
  #12  
Old 12-18-06, 09:38 PM
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For what it's worth...
I have the Air Pump system right now and really don't like it. Too much to regulate...you have to adjust it by measuring the amount of water that comes out of it's drain as the pump runs, adjust pressure, etc.

Before that, I had a venturi aerator. In my opinion, if you would see the small hole in them that your pump has to pump through to create the suction, you probably would wonder how long your pump would last!...AND that hole gets smaller when they start to plug up with iron.

Then, the water will go into an iron filter.

I am going with a chemical feeder with chlorine AND a retention tank. This will allow contact time AND I can monitor the sediment in the retention tank and clean it. Having one with a bottom drain I think would be a good idea. That way you could drain a few gallons every other week or so to clean out the bottom.

I am using a large (13 x 54) acid neutralizer tank with a top fill plug for PH, but another advantage to having a chem feeder would be that IF I ever wanted to throw some soda ash in along with the chlorine, I can, but I'd rather not have to mess with soda ash. Just having the option to do it is (I think) a good thing.

I am NO expert, I just know what I've tried in the past that HASN'T worked!


Russ
 
  #13  
Old 10-06-07, 09:47 AM
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Reasonable installation cost

Originally Posted by justalurker View Post
Hi Chris,

Sure, you can have as much stuff as will fit and you can afford ...

3 ppm iron can be treated by a softener with fine mesh resin. you'd need to set up a maintenance schedule to use iron-out or the like to keep the resin up to par and you can use salt (NaCl) that has iron treatment in it.

Your PH is a little low @ 6.

For a household without a high water use appliance (jacuzzi and the like) with 4 people a 1.25 cu ft softener would do the job. Maybe bump it to a 1.5 cu ft and have a little "room" in case your water hardens up. The softener would regenerate about once a week which is about perfect. The Fleck 5600SE is made of Noryl and is completely inert and won't rust or corode.

You can check out this URL for more info ...

http://ohiopurewaterco.com/shop/cust...me.php?cat=179

You have to "copy & paste" as HTML is turned off on this forum

Hi, been a year! I am settled on the Fleck 5600SE but don't I also need a separate red-out salt tank? also what's a reasonable cost to install these? Up here a plumber costs about $80 an hour. The local water treatment company seems a little high - they are quoting $2,200 for what amounts to the Fleck for install included
 
  #14  
Old 10-06-07, 07:24 PM
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Hardnessl, iron and low pH

I'd suggest the following, based on reading this thread:-

1. Self-backwashing pH neutralizer
2. Iron filter
3. Water softener

You might consider the 7000 valve instead of the 5600, since it causes less net pressure loss.

With only 7gpm influent, you might consider adding an additional pressure expansion tank to ensure that you have sufficient backwash flow & volume.

$80/hour is a good rate for a licensed plumber.
 
 

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