Pyrolox


  #1  
Old 10-19-07, 09:17 PM
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Pyrolox

I'm changing my definition of how I feel about water filtration. I'm not addicted; I'm obsessed with figuring out how to improve my water. See notes below for details on my current setup and water conditions.

Iíve been leaning toward adding a Pyrolox unit.

But, I believe Pyrolox must be backwashed every night. If so, Iíd have two units backwashing every night. Has anyone ever setup systems that require two backwashes an evening?

Also, Iíve read Pyrolox needs 15gpm backwash. How does one achieve such a high backwash flow rate?

Notes:

Unfortunately, I occasionally find my water at point of use to contain 1-2ppm iron. I'm backwashing my calcite every other day, my Centaur carbon every four days, and my water softener (based on volume) about every six to seven days. I've worked to clear my filters of fouling with extra backwashes and I've installed a drip feeder with resin cleaner in my brine tank. Iíve removed the DLFC button on my calcite filter to improve backwash flow rate. My pressure tank operates at 50psi max. My pressure at point of use is about 46psi. When I open the hot and cold on my big tub my service flow rate is 6gpm if I open another spigot it increases to 8gpm (according to my Fleck 6600).

(Is my service flow rate high or low?)
(Should I replace my Fleck valves with larger diameter units like Fleck 7000s?)

Additional notes:

My water conditions three years ago were:
Hardness as CaCO3 100 mg/l
Iron 1.7 mg/l
pH 6.4

In May 2007 my water tested as:
Hardness as CaCO3 150 mg/l
Iron 11 mg/l
pH 6.3

And post filtering in May 2007:
Hardness as CaCO3 <1 mg/l
Iron
 
  #2  
Old 10-20-07, 06:13 PM
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Water filtration addiction

You can backwash multiple systems on the same day, if your well can keep up with the flow demands.

Try to stagger the regenerations by about an hour, to let the well pressure tank catch up.


Using the 7000 valve will give you a valve that will deliver high backwash rates, but you need to be sure that your well is capable of delivering the flow rates required.

Turn everything on in your home and observe the flowmeter on the 6600 to see just how much you can run through it.
The 6600 tops out at around 20gpm with a bed of resin at 70psi, so don't expect to see much more than that, even if your well is capable of delivering it.

Pyrolox likes to be backwashed at around 15gpm/ft2, so you'll actually need about 30gpm to do the job properly, based on a 10" diameter tank if you want to be within manufacturer's spec.

With that said though, backwashing up to 50% slower than recommended just means that you'll need to replace your bed sooner than anticipated.

If your well can't deliver the requisite flow rates, that's usally your only option, & you just have to make the most of what you have.

PS, what is your pH doing these days ?
 
  #3  
Old 10-21-07, 04:21 PM
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Sloooow

Hey everybody!

Greg I love the fact you always remember the little things! I've not yet installed the Corosex so my pH remains at 6.8. I hoped to today, but lawn work got me. Maybe next weekend.

In any case, I just opened every water outlet I could get my hands on to test my well pump's flow rate and the news is not good. Last night I dug out my builder's notes and I was pretty sure they had installed a 3/4 hp pump and at 160ft I was reading on the internet my flow rate might max out at 8gpm and sure enough that's what I found. Actually in the 7 to 8 gpm range. I imagine that ahead of my filters my flow rate would be a solid 8gpm.

Now I will mention that I bet I could get by pump pulled and a new one installed for less than what most of you could. One of the few perks of living in Arkansas is the lower cost of living. The guys that "pounded" my well the old fashioned way three years ago charged me $1170 for the pump, pitless adapter, and installation. So I imagine I could manage a new and "horsier" pump for under 2k, but knowing that the pump I have will fail sooner or later makes it sorta nuts to replace it now. Doesnít it?

I didnít realize that Birm was essentially Pyrolox (manganese dioxide) coating a plastic bead and that Birm doesnít require a potassium permanganate regeneration and that Birm is lighter. So now Iím thinking with my low flow rate that Birm might be the way to go.

Has anyone had any positive experiences using Birm? Iíve read previous posted and it seems that no one has said anything particularly good about Birm.

Thanks for any advice!
 
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Old 10-22-07, 02:27 PM
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Birm

http://www.clackcorp.com/water/pdf/birm.pdf

DO, oil & pH issues/interactions have been my major frustrations with Birm. Birm doesn't like chlorine at all either.
 
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Old 10-22-07, 07:42 PM
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Thanks Greg, yeah I didn't expect you to respond positively. That's good information to have.

So how about Greensand instead? I guess I was trying to avoid a potassium permanganate (PP) backwash, but I suppose it's really safer than the chlorine I am already injecting. Should it be placed ahead of my Carbon unit?

Finally, would you consider switching out my softer resin from standard diameter to fine?

Thanks a bunch!



Originally Posted by greg-cws View Post
http://www.clackcorp.com/water/pdf/birm.pdf

DO, oil & pH issues/interactions have been my major frustrations with Birm. Birm doesn't like chlorine at all either.
 
  #6  
Old 10-22-07, 09:55 PM
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Iron removal media

Try this instead. All the benefits of greensand, but easier to backwash (manganous media around a lightweight plastic core).

http://www.clackcorp.com/water/pdf/mtm.pdf

MTM can run in "continuous regeneration" mode with chlorine injection, which will allows it to use very low amounts of KMnO4 to periodically recoat the media.

I've been specifying MTM for about 10 years in a number of states, with great success.
 
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Old 10-22-07, 11:26 PM
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Itís amazing how manganese dioxide can be organized around different cores and attached with different methods to create these different products. MTM sounds exactly like what I could use. It will benefit from chlorine and is light enough that I can backwash it! Iím considering a 10x47 tank with 1 cu ft. of MTM and a Fleck 7000 valve. Let me know if you have additional advice and Iíll keep you updated! Thanks so much!

Originally Posted by greg-cws View Post
Try this instead. All the benefits of greensand, but easier to backwash (manganous media around a lightweight plastic core).

http://www.clackcorp.com/water/pdf/mtm.pdf

MTM can run in "continuous regeneration" mode with chlorine injection, which will allows it to use very low amounts of KMnO4 to periodically recoat the media.

I've been specifying MTM for about 10 years in a number of states, with great success.
 
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Old 10-23-07, 08:36 AM
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What size is your plumbing leading to the water treatment system? If it is 3/4" piping, good luck ever getting enough to back wash at 15 gpm let alone multiple units or water usage during backwashing.

3/4 hp pump may need be able to keep up with your demands.

You may need to replumb the system from the pressure tank to the treatment. How big is the line from the well to the tank? Flow is what you need. Evethough the speed limit is 35 and you have permission to travel that fast, somehow the golf cart just can't do it...

You can try pyrolox or birm for iron removal and they generally work...for a while. After tearing down units that have failed, we find the media is clumped and solid, most likely due to inappropriate backwashing rates.

The diameter of your tank will make a big difference as backwashing lift capacxities are related to square footage of the media. A 6" tank will require less flow rate than a 10" tank. But will 6 inches provide the service you need.

Why are your test results SO different? Are these samples taken for the well or after your system? 11ppm iron is an amazing jump!

Sorry I have tro run but will check back later.
Andy

Got you pm, also. Thanks
 
  #9  
Old 10-23-07, 07:19 PM
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Mtm

Thanks Andy, I appreciate your reply to my PM inquiring as to your reservations regarding Birm and I understand your comments. I had read some of your previous posts on Birm and your reservations seem well founded. But, Iíve moved on to considering a 10x47 tank with 1 cu ft. of MTM and a Fleck 7000 valve.

Originally Posted by AndyC View Post
What size is your plumbing leading to the water treatment system? If it is 3/4" piping, good luck ever getting enough to back wash at 15 gpm let alone multiple units or water usage during backwashing.

3/4 hp pump may need be able to keep up with your demands.

You may need to replumb the system from the pressure tank to the treatment. How big is the line from the well to the tank? Flow is what you need. Evethough the speed limit is 35 and you have permission to travel that fast, somehow the golf cart just can't do it...

You can try pyrolox or birm for iron removal and they generally work...for a while. After tearing down units that have failed, we find the media is clumped and solid, most likely due to inappropriate backwashing rates.

The diameter of your tank will make a big difference as backwashing lift capacxities are related to square footage of the media. A 6" tank will require less flow rate than a 10" tank. But will 6 inches provide the service you need.

Why are your test results SO different? Are these samples taken for the well or after your system? 11ppm iron is an amazing jump!

Sorry I have tro run but will check back later.
Andy

Got you pm, also. Thanks
 
  #10  
Old 10-24-07, 09:05 AM
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No prob...

I hope you fnd the solutions you are looking for. Happy to have helped.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
 
  #11  
Old 11-01-07, 07:45 PM
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MTM Fleck 7000

Hey everybody (esp. Greg)!

I set up my 10x47 tank with a cubic foot of MTM with a Fleck 7000 valve today. Well, by setup I mean I plumbed it anyway. I filled it with media and water, but it's on bypass right now with the valve unplugged.

I'll give it a backwash tomorrow to get rid of the fines and then regenerate it tomorrow night. The seller suggested I let it sit overnight with the PotPerm in the media. Does this sound about right?

My main question is what would be a good setting for the valve? Should I use the metered option or set the valve to regenerate based on elapsed days?

Oh, btw, I also added about .3 cubic feet of Corosex to my calcite tank today. I'll report my pH soon.

In any case, I'm really looking forward getting the MTM online!

Thanks for any advice!
 
  #12  
Old 11-03-07, 06:07 PM
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More on MTM

Please read my previous post.

I'm pretty sure I'll have to set the 7000 MTM tank valve to regenerate based on days as well as my 6600 softener to keep them from overlapping. If my wife wouldn't get up so early I'd have more hours to work with. My 5600s regenerate at midnight and the 7000 and 6600 will regenerate at 2am.

Anyway, the only question I think I have at this point is: Does the pot perm flow very slowly during step 2, the brine draw/slow rinse? There is purple liquid in the line where it connects to the 7000 so I guess it is working, I just didn't expect it to flow so slowly!

In any case, Sunday will be my first day with the MTM online. I'm going to wash a big load of my white undershirts with chlorox whitener!

Thanks for any advice!

Originally Posted by jjamison View Post
Hey everybody (esp. Greg)!

I set up my 10x47 tank with a cubic foot of MTM with a Fleck 7000 valve today. Well, by setup I mean I plumbed it anyway. I filled it with media and water, but it's on bypass right now with the valve unplugged.

I'll give it a backwash tomorrow to get rid of the fines and then regenerate it tomorrow night. The seller suggested I let it sit overnight with the PotPerm in the media. Does this sound about right?

My main question is what would be a good setting for the valve? Should I use the metered option or set the valve to regenerate based on elapsed days?

Oh, btw, I also added about .3 cubic feet of Corosex to my calcite tank today. I'll report my pH soon.

In any case, I'm really looking forward getting the MTM online!

Thanks for any advice!
 
 

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