No brine draw


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Old 01-01-08, 09:08 PM
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Question No brine draw

Hi,

I have a Kenmore 625.348570 (or 625.348590, not sure, same manual is appropriate for both models -- I'll check later tonight). About 3 years ago the softener stopped working. Turned out that the gasket (part # 7204362) was completely destroyed. It was the red neoprene type. The replacement was a black rubber one. The softener has been fine since then. About a month ago I noticed some water in the main storage tank, but dismissed it. Well, started noticing sediment on dishes. Storage tank is still about half full with water,as is the brine well.

Did some research, found this thread:

http://forum.doityourself.com/showth...=174318&page=2

Also visited here, and walked through the troubleshooting steps:

http://www.kenmorewater.com/website/.../ts_index.html

Turns out that I'm not getting any suction from the venturi during the brine stage. In fact, waters pours out when I disconnect the brine line from the venturi assembly. So, I took apart the venturi, cleaned the pieces, lubed the o-ring, reassembled...same result. Noticed that the venturi had left somewhat of an imprint on the gasket. So, I ordered a replacement gasket from softenerparts.com. Gasket arrived after about a week, replaced old gasket, same result.

I then took apart the valve assembly. I didn't notice any obvious issues. There was minimal wear on one or two of the o-rings, but most of the o-rings were in perfect condition. I didn't notice anything wrong with the rotor & disc (part # 7103964). I also took out the drain hose adapter (part #7024160) and drain line. Didn't find any blockage in the drain line. Cleaned the drain adapter and lubed up the o-ring as well. I also checked the 2 o-rings that separate the venturi from the valve assembly (part #7170319) and they seemed fine.

The one thing I haven't messed with is the turbine & shaft & o-ring in the "out" pipe of the valve (parts # 2204101, 7117858, 9000803). Those are going to be difficult to access, especially because I'm not very handy.

At this point, I'm probably going to take the venturi apart again and double-check all the parts. One thing I did notice is that the manual and animations on the kenmore site list the venturi and flow plug as two separate parts. My venturi has a flow plug that is embedded within it (it's plastic), essentially it's all one piece. Does anyone else have this same piece? Also, I'm not talking about the flow plug beneath the gasket. I also have that piece.

I plan on taking apart the valve assembly again and double-checking the Rotor & Disc and Rotor seals.

Anyone have any ideas? Is there anyway way for me to test the venturi for suction without it being connected to the water softener?

Here's a link to the manual:

http://www.kenmorewater.com/website/...625.348570.pdf

Thanks,
pimy
 
  #2  
Old 01-02-08, 10:25 AM
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Couple of trouble shooting tips:
         
          #3  
        Old 01-02-08, 02:54 PM
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        The motor is turning properly and stopping at the correct locations.

        Is it worth trying to replace just the rotor, or just the venturi (whichever is less expensive), and see if that fixes the issue? What has been your experience?

        Thanks,
        pimy
         
          #4  
        Old 01-02-08, 03:21 PM
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        Originally Posted by pimy11 View Post
        The motor is turning properly and stopping at the correct locations.

        Is it worth trying to replace just the rotor, or just the venturi (whichever is less expensive), and see if that fixes the issue? What has been your experience?

        Thanks,
        pimy
        From the large number of posts about this problem with these softeners all over the internet self help forums it seems that trying to effect this repair on the cheap rarely works.

        Gusman1 is right, go for the rotor, rotor gaskets, and venturi seals and do the job once and be done with it. Besides, you'll save lots on shipping and handling charges getting only one parts order.
         
          #5  
        Old 01-08-08, 08:01 PM
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        I spoke with Sears customer service and they suggested the same thing, replace the rotor & disc, and the seals. I ordered the Rotor & Disc, and the Seal Kit (part # 7129716) from softenerparts. The parts arrived today. I replaced all the parts, still the same result.

        Do you have any other suggestions?

        Thanks,
        pimy

        One other thing, my model # is 625.348590.
         

        Last edited by pimy11; 01-08-08 at 08:02 PM. Reason: Added model #
          #6  
        Old 01-09-08, 07:29 AM
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        Originally Posted by pimy11 View Post
        The motor is turning properly and stopping at the correct locations.

        Is it worth trying to replace just the rotor, or just the venturi (whichever is less expensive), and see if that fixes the issue? What has been your experience?

        Thanks,
        pimy
        It's not really worth trying to replace only one part. Once you're in there, replace any and all consumables. Get the kit. And my vote would be for the nozzle and venturi seal causing your problem. The idea of a torque wrench is good as well, otherwise you just might torque it down and warp it.
         
          #7  
        Old 01-09-08, 07:58 PM
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        I spoke with Sears again today. I explained the parts I had replaced and the symptoms (to a different CSR). He immediately stated that the venturi seal was upside down. He explained that the smooth side needed to be facing up. The last time I spoke with a CSR, they said smooth side down. Anyway, I flipped in the hopes that it would resolve the issue. No such luck, still no suction, and water spills out of the venturi when I disconnect the line.

        I'm going to call Sears again tomorrow. Hopefully they have some more advice.
         
          #8  
        Old 01-11-08, 05:55 AM
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        I called and spoke with a different CSR yesterday. He also said it was the venturi seal, but that the orientation was wrong. Meaning, I had to reverse the north/south position of the seal. He said that one edge of the seal was a bit thicker and it needed to be near the outside of the valve. I looked over the seal, and I didn't see a difference. Anyway I reversed it, water is still leaking out during brine stage.

        I have a question regarding silicone. How much is too much? I normally only apply a thin coating.

        Thanks,
        pimy
         
          #9  
        Old 01-11-08, 06:14 PM
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        I spoke with Sears again. There are insistent that it is either a seal in the valve, or a component within the venturi that is either damaged or incorrectly installed. I'm going to take both components apart again this weekend and give it one last shot. If that doesn't work, I'll probably order a whole new venturi.

        Thanks,
        pimy
         
          #10  
        Old 01-12-08, 08:15 PM
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        I got a hold of a bunch of food grade silicone, and then took apart both components. Lubed everything up, put it back together and sure enough it worked!

        A few things I would like to mention to anyone who comes across this issue:

        Please be sure to install the venturi gasket number side up. You should see a "70", that side faces up. There a two holes in the gasket (not including the curved indentation along the edge). One is directly in the middle. This sits over the flow plug (part #1148800). The other hole should sit right above the small cone screen (part # 7095030). I think I remember reading that the gasket could be flipped over if there are indentation marks (to avoid having to replace it). I think this was stuck in the back of my mind, so I didn't pay close enough attention to how I reassembled the venturi. Just remember, number side up.

        Please be sure you installed the venturi seal (figure 8 seal) smooth side up. Also, I finally understand what the Sears reps were trying to explain. The seal isn't perfectly straight. It curves slightly. Be sure that the seal curves to the inside (to the right) when you install it. Just look at the valve housing and you'll see what I mean.

        Lastly, regarding the rotor seal (2 pieces -- 1 is rubber, 1 is plastic). The rubber piece goes in first. You'll notice that one side is pointed (like the top of a roof) and one side is concaved. Place the pointed side up, concaved side down. Place the plastic seal right on top of it. The plastic seal has a concave side and a flat side. The concave side should be facing down, so that it locks into the rubber seal. This is explained in the seal kit pamphlet, but I figured it might help those who don't have that available.

        Well, I let the Brine stage run for an hour of so and the water level dropped big time. I followed the instructions in the manual to sanitize the unit (used some bleach). My concern is that the salt is wet and it will harden if given the chance. I'm going to run another regeneration later tonight, to keep it somewhat wet.

        Does anyone have any tips on what I can use to remove the salt? How about if I keep enough water in the tank each day so that the salt remains submerged, and run regens each night until that salt is all but gone, any danger in that?

        Thanks,
        pimy
         
          #11  
        Old 01-13-08, 08:29 PM
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        I have had trouble for a few months with brine draw and in the end I replaced the rotor disc and gaskets. The new disc had a different kind of material on the face of it. My cousing has one 7 years old with a whole house water filter and has never had a problem yet. Mine went 2 years no filter and 3 more with a filter. I suspect that any minerals in the water hasten the wear out on the face of the disc as I could see groving on the face. I believe water sediment filters are one of the best things I ever installed. Coffe makers now last much longer than 6-8 months. Just my thoughts but in time we will see.
         
          #12  
        Old 01-15-08, 08:59 PM
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        I ended up using a crowbar (carefully ) and a shop vac to clean out the hardened salt. Mods, please close the thread, I have nothing further to add.

        Thanks,
        pimy
         
         

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