Fleck 5600Se - Regeneration Day Override?


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Old 03-14-08, 10:33 AM
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Fleck 5600Se - Regeneration Day Override?

Hello there,

I just installed a 48K softener with a fleck 5600SE. Under current (metered) conditions I estimate that my softener will regenerate approx once every month (I purchased a larger softener because my wife and I live in a large house. When we have a family or if we ever sell our house the softener is sized properly.)

Anyway, my question is this: Should I be setting a Regeneration day override on my softener? What should it be set to (7 days, 14 days?) What will happen if I allow my softener to only regen once a month? Can I damage my resin or does it only affect water quality?

Thank you.
 
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Old 03-14-08, 12:01 PM
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Hey jer,thats a good valve you have there. The over-ride is a bit confusing to me though,if your softener is metered it will regenerate(regen) according to how many gallons of water you use. Yours is probably set around 12 to 1500 gallons if it's a bigger unit. What is this over-ride?
 
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Old 03-14-08, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jerhuets View Post
Should I be setting a Regeneration day override on my softener? What should it be set to (7 days, 14 days?) What will happen if I allow my softener to only regen once a month? Can I damage my resin or does it only affect water quality?
Set the calendar day override to 7 or 8 days. That's about optimum.

Running 2 weeks to a month between regenerations there is a possibility the resin will channel and you don't want that.
 
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Old 03-14-08, 05:25 PM
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HPC Bacteria

A softener should be backwashed at least every 7 days to reduce the chances of colonization by HPC bacteria.

Adjust your salting & capacity settings to cause it to regenerate approx. every 4 days on-demand and then use the 7 day override as your backup when water consumption is lower than expected/normal.
 
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Old 03-14-08, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by greg-cws View Post
Adjust your salting & capacity settings to cause it to regenerate approx. every 4 days on-demand and then use the 7 day override as your backup when water consumption is lower than expected/normal.
Greg,

I disagree. The OP said he has a 1.5 cube softener which is what his house would require if fully populated but now, there's just him and his wife.

If he resets the 1.5 cube softener's capacity and salt settings to regen every 4 days there there won't be sufficient salt to fully regenerate the resin.

IMO he's better off to leave the softener set as it is and set the calendar day override at 7 days. Then he'll get the full salt dose for the 1.5 cubes of resin and force regeneration at the optimum interval, 7 days.

Don't you agree?
 
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Old 03-15-08, 09:20 AM
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Ok, thanks for your replies. I will set my regen override to 8 or 9 days... (of course it is tempting to set this number as high as possible because it reduces the operating cost [salt]).

As for the reasons why you have to regen every so many days. It seems more logical that it would be due to the possibility of resin fouling (bacteria or otherwise) than due to channeling. I thought channeling had more to due with flow rates(still water can't channel). What do you think Lurker?
 
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Old 03-15-08, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jerhuets View Post
Ok, thanks for your replies. I will set my regen override to 8 or 9 days... (of course it is tempting to set this number as high as possible because it reduces the operating cost [salt]).

As for the reasons why you have to regen every so many days. It seems more logical that it would be due to the possibility of resin fouling (bacteria or otherwise) than due to channeling. I thought channeling had more to due with flow rates(still water can't channel). What do you think Lurker?
There are problem with installing a softener too large than is required based on water conditions, water usage, and SFR. I do agree with your prudent and forward-looking decision to buy a softener properly sized for the house if it were fully populated but one can go too far. Too big is not just as good. I don't believe you did.

Bacteria population is the most important reason. Salt is cheap.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 09:46 AM
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Partial regenerations - Proportional/fractional/variable brining

Lurker,

The logic here is that the entire bed is not exhausted, so it doesn't need a complete regeneration.

ie - if only 30% of the column is exhausted at the time of regeration, then approx 30% of the full salting is required to clean the exhausted part of the column.

Sodium-form ion exchange resin is cleaned through mass action of sodium ions acting against the exchange sites on & in the resin. If the exchange site already contains sodium ions, then the brine solution is not used and passes through the column until exchanged or finally passed to drain.

The net result is cleaner water and less leakage of calcium ions to service, with significantly less risk of bacterial contamination of the bed.

This is the premise behind variable/fractional/proportional brining methods that are used in residential/commercial and industrial applications all over the world with great success.

This regeneration schema obviously works the very best in upflow brining (Fleck 6700, Erie/Intermountain etc...), , but it even works well on downflow, as evidenced by Autotrol's latest logix platform.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 09:49 AM
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Oversizing

I agree with the Lurker.

Significantly oversized systems are more hassle than they're worth.


Originally Posted by justalurker View Post
There are problem with installing a softener too large than is required based on water conditions, water usage, and SFR. I do agree with your prudent and forward-looking decision to buy a softener properly sized for the house if it were fully populated but one can go too far. Too big is not just as good. I don't believe you did.

Bacteria population is the most important reason. Salt is cheap.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by greg-cws View Post
Lurker,

The logic here is that the entire bed is not exhausted, so it doesn't need a complete regeneration.

ie - if only 30% of the column is exhausted at the time of regeration, then approx 30% of the full salting is required to clean the exhausted part of the column.

Sodium-form ion exchange resin is cleaned through mass action of sodium ions acting against the exchange sites on & in the resin. If the exchange site already contains sodium ions, then the brine solution is not used and passes through the column until exchanged or finally passed to drain.

The net result is cleaner water and less leakage of calcium ions to service, with significantly less risk of bacterial contamination of the bed.

This is the premise behind variable/fractional/proportional brining methods that are used in residential/commercial and industrial applications all over the world with great success.

This regeneration schema obviously works the very best in upflow brining (Fleck 6700, Erie/Intermountain etc...), , but it even works well on downflow, as evidenced by Autotrol's latest logix platform.
Agreed, but wouldn't it be better to reset the softener capacity and salt dose for a projected 7 day regeneration based on water conditions and actual water usage with an 8 day calendar override than to set the softener to 4 days with a 7 day override?

I guess I'm tripping over the 4 day setting... seems real short to me.
 
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Old 03-15-08, 10:48 AM
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details

You could clean every 1,2,3,4,5,6 or 7 days
As long as the salt consumption is related to the percentage of exhaustion.

4 days is the current trend in Europe. They dropped from every 7 days down to every 4 for HPC reasons (they're a lot more critical about these things than we are here in the USA), so that's why I hanging my hat on the 4-day cycle - I'm sure it will eventually be popularized here too one day.

My personal logic on the 4-day meter with 7-day override, is that you're able to be more effective with troubleshooting and diagnostics if there's ever a problem with the metering system.

Try it on some of your clients and see how they like it.
What valve platforms do you sell ?

Have a great weekend

Greg



Originally Posted by justalurker View Post
Agreed, but wouldn't it be better to reset the softener capacity and salt dose for a projected 7 day regeneration based on water conditions and actual water usage with an 8 day calendar override than to set the softener to 4 days with a 7 day override?

I guess I'm tripping over the 4 day setting... seems real short to me.
 
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Old 03-18-08, 08:42 AM
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Ok, I reprogrammed my softener to partially regenerate by metering every 6-7 days and override every 8 days. This seems like the best solution. (yes, I realize I could regen every 4 days also). If or when I have more people living here I will increase the amount of salt and gallons to regen.

Thank you for the ideas.
 
 

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