Help with kinetico k2030 system


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Old 09-02-08, 02:39 PM
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Help with kinetico k2030 system

I have problems of hardwater with the water coming out of the softener system. I have pretreated water @ 14 gpg hardness, 0.1 ppm iron, TDS of 1600 ppm and sodium @ 975. I had the head replaced for the softener two years ago for $800. Again when I started having problems with water, the dealer recommends a new unit as he says the unit is old and is not worth rebuilding it. Also, the system now takes close to 4 to 5, 40 lbs bags of salt every month and it regenerates atleast twice a day. I am told ideally it should take no more than 1 bag a month. Was wondering if anyone can provide some suggestions.

Thanks
 
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Old 09-03-08, 01:27 PM
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He's lying. Especially when he charged $800! to replace the control valve just a couple years ago.

Try this, add like 3 gals of water to the salt tank, wait two hours and do a manual regeneration. Then add 3 gals and wait two hours and do another regeneration; for the second tank.

If you don't get soft water between regenerations then you probably need new resin. Bought online it might be $130+-/ft3 delivered for fine mesh resin but you'd have to know how much you need. I can look up the volume for you or you can measure the tank size.
 
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Old 09-04-08, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ramviv View Post
I have problems of hardwater with the water coming out of the softener system. I have pretreated water @ 14 gpg hardness, 0.1 ppm iron, TDS of 1600 ppm and sodium @ 975. I had the head replaced for the softener two years ago for $800. Again when I started having problems with water, the dealer recommends a new unit as he says the unit is old and is not worth rebuilding it. Also, the system now takes close to 4 to 5, 40 lbs bags of salt every month and it regenerates atleast twice a day. I am told ideally it should take no more than 1 bag a month. Was wondering if anyone can provide some suggestions.

Thanks
What model do you have? If you can't say, then measure the tanks. What color are the tanks?

How many people are using water in your house. In general, Kineticos are very rebuildable, if I could use that term.

Since it is true demand system, it is designed to regenerate when it hits a certain number of gallons. I know systems that regenerate more than twice a day, but they are using thousands of gallons every day.

Now if it continously regenerated, that's one thing, but twice a day, that indicates something else.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
 
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Old 09-04-08, 05:51 PM
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Churlish and Andy,

Thank you for your replies. My model # is 30 and the tank color is black. What I am confused is the hardness reading. I had two sales people came in today for suggestions for new system, within an hour and they tested totally different readings on hardness. The first one, check the water hardness before the softner and it came @ 40 ppm and in our kitchen faucet, it came to 2ppm. But, when the next guy came, the reading on the faucet came to 14 ppm and he did not check pre softner reading. The first guy said that the softner seem to be working perfectly and the second guy is saying it is toast. What I am confused is, the system did not even regenerate, to rule out the possibility of one tank being bad. Is there a way for me to test for hardness individually without having to send them to the lab. I see the water testing kits sold at home depot that give a whole variety of tests in a kit which I would not even test, but has like only one strip to test hardness.

Thanks
 
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Old 09-04-08, 05:55 PM
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AndyC,

On your question of regeneration, we have only 3 in the household and I have checked for all of our faucets for possible dripping and leaks and have found none. Only other thing I have is an RO system in my kitchen. But I have a motor to pump tru the resin, and so, I know from the motor turning on, when the system comes on and off. It does not come on too often.

Thanks
 
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Old 09-04-08, 08:15 PM
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Assuming you meant gpg instead of ppm, you have hardness getting through the softener.

You should do the manual regenerations I mentioned above.

It is quite normal for small twin tank softeners like yours to regenerate numerous times per day. They regenerate every so few gallons.
 
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Old 09-17-08, 05:50 PM
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Churlish/AndyC,

I finally got the hardness testing kit I ordered online. I see that when I recycled the first time, the hardness was 2 gpg and when the recycled the second time, it was 15 gpg. Does this mean that the resin in one of the tanks is getting bad?

-Venkat
 
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Old 09-17-08, 10:19 PM
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Did you do the two manual regenerations with the additional water?
 
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Old 09-18-08, 05:13 PM
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Yes I did. The reading was taken when the regeneration was going on.
 
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Old 09-18-08, 06:29 PM
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When you use water during a regeneration of a twin tank type softener, you get water from the tank being used to regenerate the other tank. So redo the tests on both tanks when neither is in regeneration and see if there is a difference now.

If so, you have something wrong with the tank allowing hard water through it, it could be there is less resin in it than there should be, or the resin is bad or there is an internal leak in the control valve.
 
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Old 09-21-08, 11:38 AM
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Churlish,

I tried reading them after regeneration of each tank. The hardness came to 2 gpg in each of them. Then I took a reading the next morning. Now the reading came to 11 gpg.
-Venkat
 
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Old 09-22-08, 08:39 AM
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You should have had 0 gpg soft water right after the rengenerations, and the hardness increasing after you've used the softened water for a day or more says that the unit may not be regenerating when it should.

Kinetico is very difficult to change the settings on, you have to get a different numbered disk from a dealer to be able to set the gallons between regenerations. That may not be what is wrong but if your hardness in the raw water has increased since the unit was installed, you would need a new disk. Or the salt dose is wrong, you set that with the height of the float in the salt tank. Or the resin needs replacing or there is not the volume in each tank that should be due to some being backwashed out of a tank.

If you have iron in the raw water, possibly the resin is iron fouled, that reduces capacity and you should mix a 1/4 cup of Iron Out in a gallon of warm water and pour it into the water in the salt tank, add another 2 gallons, wait two hours and do a manual regeneration, then repeat for the other tank.
 
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Old 09-22-08, 11:39 AM
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Initial testing came out with 0.1 ppm iron. Also, how do I reset the height of the float? Should it be higher or lower?

Thanks
 
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Old 09-22-08, 01:28 PM
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Raising the float allows more water to dissolve more lbs of salt; a very cheap way to control the salt dose but, there are numbers on the rod the float is on, and they relate to lbs, or inches of water. We usually get 3 lbs per inch of water. That's the best I can tell you; I don't sell Kinetico.

Call the dealer or visit in person and tell them the problem and what you've done so far and get their thoughts etc.. If they refuse to help without a service call, over the next 5 years, or until they go out of business, tell everyone how they treated you.
 
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Old 10-06-08, 08:18 AM
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Is there a way for me to narrow down the area of problem. For eg, is it possible for me to check if the resin is good or bad. I will try the float, but from your posting, that does not seem to be a permanent fix. Am I right?

-Venkat
 
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Old 10-06-08, 10:10 AM
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You previously said:

Originally Posted by ramviv View Post
I have problems of hardwater with the water coming out of the softener system. I have pretreated water @ 14 gpg hardness, 0.1 ppm iron, TDS of 1600 ppm and sodium @ 975. I had the head replaced for the softener two years ago for $800. Again when I started having problems with water, the dealer recommends a new unit as he says the unit is old and is not worth rebuilding it. Also, the system now takes close to 4 to 5, 40 lbs bags of salt every month and it regenerates atleast twice a day. I am told ideally it should take no more than 1 bag a month. Was wondering if anyone can provide some suggestions.
So yes, your resin could need replacement but, with more frequent regenerations than you had before, you may have a hidden water leak. Something is using more water than before or it wouldn't be regenerating so frequently now but... IMO many Kinetico softeners are undersized, so maybe you are using more water because the kids are growing up. But with the TDS and sodium content, you probably won't get all the hardness out with your size softener. It's called hardness leakage.

There's another thread here about setting the the salt dose with their float, you should read it.

BTW, none can tell you how many bags of salt you should use unless they know your water analysis data and your salt dose setting etc. etc.. If they don't know all that, it's like you telling me how many gallons of gas my JEEP should use a month (without you knowing anything else).
 
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Old 10-06-08, 08:44 PM
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If you softener is regenerating twice a day, that means water is passing through a great quantities, enough to kick into its cycles. If your softener coninuously ran all day long, that would be one problem, but if it stop and starts, that can only be because of the demands placed on by volume.

Your system is not undersized at all. In fact it should perfectly matched if your water is 14 gpg.

Either you have K-30 or MACH 2030s, not a K2030, as there is no such model. If for some reason, you have lost resin, this can be replenishes fairly easily. These units are completely rebuildable.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
 
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Old 10-07-08, 12:40 PM
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The resin level should be 2/3 of the tank. To check the resin, get some between your thumb and fore finger. Squeeze hard. If the beads smach up, the resin is bad.

To check for a leak, turn off the main water valve before the unit for about 5 minutes. If you hear water flowing when you turn the water back on, you have a leak somewhere.
 
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Old 10-13-08, 12:41 PM
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AndyC, The model # on the system says just 30. Does that mean K-30? Also how do I access the resin in the resin tank to check the quantity of resin in the tank or to see if the resin is bad?
 
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Old 10-13-08, 04:04 PM
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Thatr most likely is a Model K-30.

To check the resins: Shut off water and run faucet to release pressure.

Remove two pins between tanks and retaining bars that connect tanks.

Wiggle tanks apart; some water will come out but not much if pressure is low. Inspect and remove and replace o-rings and add silicone when reassembling. Clean all dirt from connecting parts.

Disconnect from by-pass. There is a little metal clip with a pin in it. Lift the pin and separate tank from by-pass. Some slight impacting may be needed if it is tough to separate. Never use hammer or heavy tools.

Now you have remote and main tanks apart and away from wall. The remote and valve attached to the tanks can be turned counter-clockwise to remove. These can be a little tough due to be on for many years and may take one person holding the tank anb the other turning the tops. Use clean and use silicone (not vaseline) whn reassmebling.

There will be a riser tube in the middle. You can pull it out. there is no gravel in the bottom. Some resin will come out with it. If it is very dark in color, then it is aged but may still be good. If you have a magnifying glass you can tell if the resins are complete or fractured into many different sizes.

One of our service guys chews on the resin a little and can tell it it is shot. That is very unscientific but he has his ways.

Since you are that far it may be worth it to just change it out. You can tell if there is enough resin by measuring the distance from the top of the tank to where he resins sit in the tank. I forget the distance but will find out for you. Both tanks should have the same amount (and depth) 0.7 cuft.

New resins will be a very shiney, golden color and very hard.

Beirmech may want to contribute here as well.

Let us know when you get that far.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
 
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Old 10-13-08, 04:48 PM
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To check the resin, I squeeze some between my forefingeer and thumb. If it smashes up, it's bad. To check the height, move a flashlight up and down the outside of the tank while looking on the inside of the tank. You can tell where the resin line is. It should be about 2/3 up the tank.
 
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Old 10-15-08, 01:02 PM
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Biermech,

Forgive my ignorance on the system, I would appreciate if you can explain, what you mean by water flowing when I turn the water back on. Shouldn't the water flow when I turn the system on?

Originally Posted by biermech View Post
To check for a leak, turn off the main water valve before the unit for about 5 minutes. If you hear water flowing when you turn the water back on, you have a leak somewhere.
Also, I noticed something. I put the system in bypass and then disconnected the outlet that sends out the regenerated water. I kept it that way for two days and all along I see that water is trickling out. If the system is in bypass, shouldnt there be no water flow from the system? Meanwhile, I will check on the Resin. Thanks a lot to you and AndyC for the detailed explanation.
 
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Old 10-15-08, 02:44 PM
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When you turn off the house shut off valve, the lines will remained pressurized as long as there are no leaks. If someone opens a faucet or there is a leak, then when you turn the main on again, you will hear water flowing.

With the unit is on bypass, no water should be flowing to the drain. That tells me the bypass is not holding (leaking by) and the unit may be faulty. While the unit is in the service position, no water should be coming from the drain. If you put the unit on bypass when the unit was in a regen, then the leaking bypass would allow water to the drain. What style bypass do you have?
 
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Old 10-16-08, 04:06 PM
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Thanks Now I understand what you wanted me to check. I closed the main shutoff valve for about 30 min and then reopened it and did not hear any noise of water flowing. As of the style of bypass, I am not sure. It does not have any model # on it. It is a kinetico system, that has Service, Off and Bypass in one half and can turn max of 180 degrees. Also, I noticed one another thing. What should be the std setting of this bypass. Ever since the last service about an year back, this bypass has always been at service. Is that how it is supposed to be? What does the off setting do?
 
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Old 10-16-08, 05:20 PM
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Does your by-pass look like this? This is a one-inch by-pass. The newer one is 1.5".
The OFF marker means the whole house is off--shut down. So this by-pass can provide service, by-pass and
turn the house water off as well.
Also the water can enter in either the top right or top left depending on which way your plumbing is arranged.
Look carefully on the gray disk and you can see A-C or B-C to indicate how it is set. If it is A-C then the water is coming
from top right to bottom right and out the other two. Pretty handy.

 
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Old 10-17-08, 09:33 AM
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Yes, that is exactly how it looks. It has A to C on left and B and D on the other. A and B being in the top. I set the bypass to off and turned on the faucet in the house and there is a steady flow water coming in it after the pipes have drained. Does this confirm the leaky bypass? or is there any other way to confirm it? Also, could this be the reason for my problem?
 
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Old 10-17-08, 10:31 AM
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Turn off the main water supply and depressurize the system (open a faucet). Take off the bypass handle and remove the 7 screws. Pull apart and I bet you find a broken oring.
 
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Old 10-21-08, 03:51 PM
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I took the bypass apart and I find two rubber O rings there. One, a small one by the stem and a bigger one that runs by the edge of the bypass. Which one where you referring to. Both seem to be good. I dont see any broken ones. I pulled the middle stem apart which had like a U. There was a lot of deposit there. I cleaned them out. Do I have to check anything else?
 
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Old 10-21-08, 05:29 PM
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The oring I was referring to is the bigger one that goes around the white piece. It has an oval shape slot it fits in. When moving the handle from bypass to service sometimes would cut the oring. The deposit you found may have caused it to leak by. Check to see if, while on bypass, the water stops flowing to the unit.
 
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Old 12-16-08, 08:04 AM
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Sorry for the late reply. Cleaning the bypass had helped in salt intake. In the past month it took only 2 bags of salt. But the hardness still is an issue with atleast one tank. I get 2ppm on one and 14 ppm on the other. I am planning to check on the Resin like AndyC mentioned. Thanks a lot.

-Venkat
 
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Old 01-01-09, 02:28 PM
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Have you had any progress? Let us know.
 
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Old 01-06-09, 08:22 AM
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I had been out for the holidays and so did not get a chance to look at this. I am thinking of checking the resin this weekend.
-Venkat
 
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Old 02-21-09, 05:56 PM
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Hi AndyC,

I was able to open the 2nd tank by turning it anti clockwise, by the main tank that houses the head would not budge. Does this turn anti-clockwise as well to open.

Also, I checked the resin on the 2nd tank. It is sand like and golden in color. It shines in light. Are the resin's that small?

Thanks
Venkat
 
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Old 02-21-09, 07:32 PM
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The valves turn in the same directions. It may take a little effort and sometimes one person holding the tank, another turning the valve. Don't put anything in the holes to torque it. It may crack the ports.

Use silicone on the o-ring when replacing it.

Yes, the resin color is good. Those are actually the BIG resins. Fine mesh is even smaller.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
 
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Old 02-21-09, 08:09 PM
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Thanks a lot for the quick response. I will try it and update you.
 
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Old 03-31-09, 03:14 PM
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Wink K-30

I have read the thread and gotten a ton of info. My K-30 is slowly becoming clogged after 17 years. I will change the resin this summer. Is there a specific resin I should look for. All I got from the thread was "big" not fine meshed. Can you help?
 

Last edited by CDRCAPRI; 03-31-09 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Mis-quoted a term
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Old 03-31-09, 05:00 PM
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Why do you say 'clogged'? are you getting slow flow or low pressure?

For typical water conditions, a standard mesh high capacity cation resin. Each tank will take 0.7 cuft.

Empty the tank, put in a cup of bleach and fill with water. Let sit for a while and flush again. Make sure threads are clear of dirt or resin and put some silicone on the o-ring and re-attach valve.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
 
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Old 04-01-09, 07:32 AM
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Yes by clogged I mean my second floor water pressure has dropped significantly over the years. It appears to be one cylinder worse than the other because sometimes when it recharges it is a little better. I have pretty heavy iron from the well and must replace the sediment filter every couple of months anyway and with flow through the softner decreasing I need to do something. I will shock the well also soon to decrease the black iron sludge also. Andy, Beer 4U2, your comments have helped me find some answers about Kenetico systems that I have been having difficulty finding. Thanks.
 
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Old 04-12-09, 06:19 PM
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Hi,

I finally was able to open up the other tank. I also found out that this system was put by my previous owner 15 years ago. So, I was thinking of changing the resin, since I had already opened up both of them. Where can I buy them and how much would I need? Is there a specific type that I have to buy for my type of system? I tried to get it from my current dealer in this area but could not.

Thanks
Venkat
 
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Old 04-12-09, 08:42 PM
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It takes high-capacity cation resin and each tank take 0.4 cuft. with no gravel bed.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
 
 

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