Kinetico help needed


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Old 09-28-08, 10:43 AM
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Kinetico help needed

Since I am currently out of work I am trying to troubleshoot my softener.
I have a Kinetico model 60 with a #4 disk, hardness at 10, Iron at 1.5, TDS? at 400.
A week ago I stopped getting soft water and I put system into bypass for now.

Here is what I've done: I disconnected the black feed hose between the softener and the brine tank. When rotating the disk I am able to pull a suction on the feed as well as water out of the feed hose depending on where disk is rotated (I also can get system to drain out of the softener to the drain). Therefore, I would think my valve(head) is ok. Correct?
I blew through the opened feed line to the brine tank and this was open (water in the tank bubbled). But, when I took the salt out of the tank, there are four large holes in the bottom that have hard pack salt in them ( the small holes are open and there is a little water above this piece). Is this ok? I only use salt from the Kinetico dealer. My disk says Backwash, Brine (dot) Rinse and a small area that is blank. What does each of these do? What do I look for next?
Sorry for all the questions. Thanks!
 
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Old 09-28-08, 01:52 PM
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Each tank must regenerate so the disc shows brine/rinse then backwash. The space between is for service then brine/rinse then backwash again a space for the other tank.

Having draw says the system is working. The problem is in the salt tank. Need to know what brine system you have. Is it 2 or 3 styofoam floats?
 
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Old 09-28-08, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by biermech View Post
Each tank must regenerate so the disc shows brine/rinse then backwash. The space between is for service then brine/rinse then backwash again a space for the other tank.

Having draw says the system is working. The problem is in the salt tank. Need to know what brine system you have. Is it 2 or 3 styofoam floats?
Thanks for replying.
I have two styrofoam floats.
 
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Old 09-28-08, 07:16 PM
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I am a little surprised with your water results that you are on a disk 4. Look at the top of the valve at the lens, is it fairly clear?

Are the tanks a brown color or black?

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
 
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Old 09-28-08, 07:28 PM
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Ok. Those rings on the inside of the float are magnets. On the inside of the tube they ride up and down on, is a square magnet. Unscrew the stem (above top float) and pull styroform float off. Inside magnet should come out with it. Check small square magnet. Make sure it is not cracked. There is a check ball (should be white) inside float assembly that the styrofoam was on.

With the small magnet inside the magnet ring, push down with one finger so the small maget protrude past the bottom of the ring magnet and slide the float assemble inside the ring. Small magnet has a track it stays in inside the float assemble. It will slide up and down inside float assemble as the outer float moves. The check ball is there for when the tank fills up. The float moves up bringing the small magnet with it allowing the check ball to roll over and seal the incoming water.

The bottom float works in the same fashion except the check ball is blue. It floats whereas the white check ball does not. Just do the same thing. If the inside magnet does not move with the float, clean everything and check again.
 
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Old 09-30-08, 07:23 PM
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AndyC: The tanks are brown and the top is clear and it is a 4.

biermech: The square magnet looked ok but I'm not sure if it was in the groove before I took it apart. I could not get the lower float apart.There is a clear plastic collar that is part of the float. Otherwise, everything looked clean and in working condition.
 
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Old 09-30-08, 08:08 PM
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Sorry if I confused you. I pictured a 3 float sys. You don't have 2 check balls. Only a 3 float sys has them.

With the squre magnet out of it's grove, the check ball can be forced to "check" permaturly.

At the base of the collar is a square cut out. There is a peg that rides in that sqaure. Does the collar move freely on the peg?
 
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Old 10-01-08, 09:48 AM
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Magnets in the salt tank sounds complicated and the use of Styrofoam says cheap cheap. Yet Kinetico dealers charge a premium price for their non industry standard water powered softeners and any service on them.

bsa0021 for a new one, that brine system shouldn't cost more than $15-20 retail.

Brown tanks means it's an older softener.
 
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Old 10-01-08, 09:58 AM
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Them may sound cheap cheap, but work work! Why spend $15-20 when a little cleaning will do? I like to find the root of the problem instead of being a parts changer. Anyone can do that!
 
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Old 10-01-08, 01:08 PM
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biermech: Yes, I see the collar w/the square cutout and it moves freely. I really appreciate your help.

Churlish: Yes it is an older system. I have a receipt for "87" install but I know only 2 people lived in the house then it was vacant for three years and the last 7 years only one person has been in the house 80% of the time so I don't think the system has 20 years of typical use.

This is the first time I have had any problems.
 
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Old 10-01-08, 01:37 PM
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I was saying if he can't fix, if there is a magnet missing etc. etc.

I am not one to replace a softener of any kind when it can be fixed. If he can't fix it, or parts, THEN he may be able to buy a new float for $15-20 from the local dealer.
 
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Old 10-01-08, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bsa0021 View Post
AndyC: The tanks are brown and the top is clear and it is a 4.

biermech: The square magnet looked ok but I'm not sure if it was in the groove before I took it apart. I could not get the lower float apart.There is a clear plastic collar that is part of the float. Otherwise, everything looked clean and in working condition.
Thanks. If the lens is clear, then it has probably been working very well for the first two decades. With some minor repairs/tune-up, it can easily last another. With 1.5 parts iron, it seems to be removing it very well.

Kinetico no longer makes the foam floats, they are made of a plastic cone. When we see these in old ones, we make sure they are still set for the water conditions but don't need to change them if they are OK.

The salt that is in the bottom and packed in those holes can be cleaned out. In fact, you might want to take it somewhere where you can flush it with a garden hose. Other than that is the brine drum fairly clean? Always use a high quality salt.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
 
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Old 10-01-08, 07:06 PM
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The brine tank is pretty clean except for the salt build-up. I will take it out to clean it tomorrow. I did find a small piece of (rusty) metal the size of a nickel. I have no idea how it got in there.
 
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Old 10-01-08, 07:36 PM
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Unless you think the rusty part is part of the magnets in the float, clean the float part in warm to hot water and the tank and then see how the softener works.
 
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Old 10-04-08, 02:23 PM
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Ok, I finally washed out the brine tank. There was about 2" of salt mush on the bottom.
Do I add water 2" above the plastic screen then add salt and put softener on backwash twice or do I run it through backwash, brine, rinse and then repaet for the other tank?
 
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Old 10-04-08, 02:43 PM
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Yes, have about 2" of water above the grid plate and add salt. Wait 2 hrs then turn just a few clicks (or until you hear water running) and leave it for 1 hour. Come back and do the same thing.
 
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Old 10-04-08, 04:08 PM
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As I was retreiving water from the well I noticed my water is black. It starts out light brown and as it sits it turns black. I've noticed this on and off at times in the toilet. I just changed the in line filter about a month ago using a charcoal filter. Could the filter be disintergrating?
 
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Old 10-04-08, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bsa0021 View Post
As I was retreiving water from the well I noticed my water is black. It starts out light brown and as it sits it turns black. I've noticed this on and off at times in the toilet. I just changed the in line filter about a month ago using a charcoal filter. Could the filter be disintergrating?
Avoid using a carbon filter (either GAC, pleated or block) as your initial media. It can be a breeding place for organics and are more designed for drinking water applications with lower flow rates and longer life.

Use a sediment filter of about 20 microns.

Andy Christesnen, CWS-II
 
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Old 10-05-08, 02:37 PM
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Did you draw water before or after the filter? Could be manganese (I think it's black) or h2s. But if you don't have rotton egg smell, it's not h2s
 
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Old 10-05-08, 04:50 PM
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Sorry if I'm making this harder than it should, but I put the softener on "Brine" and I let it run through "Rinse, and Backwash" as well (about an hour) By that time, the water level in the brine tank had risen about 4" below the overflow. I moved the disk past the "Blank" section to the Brine , Rinse, Backwash. There is still water close to the overflow.
It sounded like the water was running the entire time. Is my float still not working?? I put the system back into bypass because it sounded like it was still running in the blank section.
 
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Old 10-05-08, 05:26 PM
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I see a couple of problems. 1. The float is not stopping the fill. 2. Unit is not drawing brine. I sent you a private message with my phone #. Call me.
 
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Old 10-16-08, 09:53 PM
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Ok, my softener is working now. I wanted to wait a couple days to make sure it continues. Thanks again to everyone for the help especially biermech.
biermech: After our last conversation, you mentioned keeping the float level and it hit me when I went into the basement that the salt tank was not level. I also remember finding 2 rotting pieces of wood on the floor next to the tank when I removed it for cleaning. I think someone used wood to level the tank and when I dumped the last bag of salt the rotted pieces gave out and the float would no longer work correctly. I used some rubber step wedges to level the tank and all is good.
Thank again!
 
 

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