Waterboss 900 brine tank high water level


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Old 01-24-10, 12:41 PM
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Waterboss 900 brine tank high water level

Have had the WB 900 about 8 years. Has done well until recently. Brine tank water level is about 8 to 10 inches from the top. Followed all instructions in the manual but water level returns to a high level. Followed all instructions and cleaned all parts listed and found no apparent problems. Unit appears to be functioning properly, i.e. cycling, regenerating, cleaning. Any additional things to do or try?
 
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Old 01-25-10, 06:54 PM
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Only 2 things will cause the tank to fill. 1. the unit is not drawing the brine water out during the regen. 2. Leak.
 
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Old 05-28-10, 06:53 PM
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Bob, did you ever find the cause of your high water level? I'm having same problem and have gone through everything with Waterboss customer support.

Biermech, what would cause the unit to not draw the water out during the regen? Like I said, have seemingly gone through all possibilities with Waterboss but water level stills rises a few inches on each regen.

thanks
 
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Old 05-28-10, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by gfrobe
Bob, did you ever find the cause of your high water level? I'm having same problem and have gone through everything with Waterboss customer support.

Biermech, what would cause the unit to not draw the water out during the regen? Like I said, have seemingly gone through all possibilities with Waterboss but water level stills rises a few inches on each regen.

thanks
Brine piston is not closing all the way, older ones will get a build up around them and the spring will not seat it correctly.
Is there water going to the drain at the same level or force that it has in the past?

PM if you have any more questions.
 
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Old 05-29-10, 06:04 AM
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Hi Alpsdvan,

Thanks for your reply. When I called Waterboss, they sent me a whole new assembly for the top which included the brine valve assembly. So all of that is brand new. However, at one I believe I did disassemble the piston and spring bit so maybe it's possible I didn't put it back together properly? For the record, the gray wheel turns fine now (it didn't before, hence the new assembly they sent me) and the drive end cap moves in and out as its supposed to. I actually hooked it up to the motor ran it outside of the assembly and watched it move properly

I'lll try disassembling the piston and ring bit and reassembling to see if that's the problem but otherwise, any other suggestions?

Thanks again.
 
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Old 05-29-10, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gfrobe
Hi Alpsdvan,

Thanks for your reply. When I called Waterboss, they sent me a whole new assembly for the top which included the brine valve assembly. So all of that is brand new. However, at one I believe I did disassemble the piston and spring bit so maybe it's possible I didn't put it back together properly? For the record, the gray wheel turns fine now (it didn't before, hence the new assembly they sent me) and the drive end cap moves in and out as its supposed to. I actually hooked it up to the motor ran it outside of the assembly and watched it move properly

I'lll try disassembling the piston and ring bit and reassembling to see if that's the problem but otherwise, any other suggestions?

Thanks again.
Do you still have the book for the Boss ?
Sounds like that there where 2 challenges or problems going on at about the same time. The main piston not moving free that can do a few things.

The brine piston is simple, there are 2 screws that hold the assembly to the drive piston housing.
There are "O" rings that you need to watch for and be careful with.
 
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Old 05-29-10, 10:33 AM
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Yes, I still have the book and will try disassembing the brine piston. However, just so I'm sure, are we talking about the piston that gets pushed in by the gray wheel? Because from what I can see (from the outside at least) that appears to be working fine i.e. the wheel pushes it in on rotation and it pops back out again when the cog on the wheel passes it. And like I said, it's a brand new part so wonder whether that could really be the problem.

Also, fyi, during phase 2 of the regen, I can definitely see water flowing the through the drain line so water is leaving the unit. It just doesn't seem to be leaving the brine tank.
 
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Old 05-29-10, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by gfrobe
Yes, I still have the book and will try disassembing the brine piston. However, just so I'm sure, are we talking about the piston that gets pushed in by the gray wheel? Because from what I can see (from the outside at least) that appears to be working fine i.e. the wheel pushes it in on rotation and it pops back out again when the cog on the wheel passes it. And like I said, it's a brand new part so wonder whether that could really be the problem.

Also, fyi, during phase 2 of the regen, I can definitely see water flowing the through the drain line so water is leaving the unit. It just doesn't seem to be leaving the brine tank.
On the front side of the gray wheel, there are three thumbs, or spots that push in the brine piston, make sure that is happening, when the first one push the piston in there should be water going to the brine tank, the second one pushes in the piston and water should come from the brine tank, the third and final is to put some water back into the brine tank.

It is possible that the injector is plugged, but in the 15 years that I have worked on max or boss that has not been a problem. The brine piston not moving in and out freely can be a problem, there could be some thing plugging the flow control that is in the brine piston assembly housing.. that could cut down on the flow either way.

If there is a plug in the drain line discharge point that can have an effect on brine draw.
 
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Old 06-01-10, 10:00 AM
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Hi again..

Have disassembled the brine piston once more to make sure everything is OK and all seems fine. The piston moves and when the wheel turns, the cogs on the wheel push the piston and out without any visible problems.

In phase 2 of the regen, is water supposed to be draining from the black tank inside or from the brine cabinet itself? And if the brine piston is working fine, is there something else I can check? You mention a possible plug in the drain line discharge point. Is that part of the assembly or somewhere in the bottom of the tank? If it's in the assembly (where the discharge pipe connects to assembly), I've already taken that out and made sure it was clear with the help of Waterboss tech support.

Sorry to keep asking but any other ideas what it could be? Waterboss is suggesting I call in a plumber but wondering what a plumber could do that I haven't already.

Thanks again.
 
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Old 06-01-10, 11:08 AM
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Have you checked the drain control?

If there is some thing blocking some or all of the flow that could have an effect on the brine draw.
 
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Old 06-01-10, 11:55 AM
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Where is the drain control?

Since everything seems to be working on top of the tank, I'm wondering if there could be some kind of clog within the cabinet itself. I take it water gets sucked into the big black tank somewhere along the bottom but where on the tank is that water supposed to go in? Is that the drain control?
 
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Old 06-01-10, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by gfrobe
Where is the drain control?

Since everything seems to be working on top of the tank, I'm wondering if there could be some kind of clog within the cabinet itself. I take it water gets sucked into the big black tank somewhere along the bottom but where on the tank is that water supposed to go in? Is that the drain control?
When looking down on the unit, the drain in on the left.
#10 93524 Drain End Cap
If there is some thing in there that should not be there, then it will slow the water down or block the flow and that could then effect the brine draw.

There is the possibility that the brine float assembly is faulty..
Make sure that the rubber seal at the base of the float arm is intact and not broken.
 
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Old 06-01-10, 12:15 PM
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Thanks. The drain end cap is clear as Waterboss talked me through disassembling that and poking a wire in to make sure the hole wasn't blocked.

As for the float, I take it you mean the one listed as a part of the safety shutoff assembly? (part 56018). I did try disconnecting that and pulling it out but didn't know what to look for after that. Will look for a rubber base. Does that have to make a tight seal on the bottom?

I'm still confused though as to how the water is supposed to be drained from the cabinet. I assume it gets sucked up into the black tank but do you know where exactly on the tank it goes in? Seems to me if there was a blockage at that point, that could cause my problem, right?
 
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Old 06-01-10, 01:47 PM
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Water is removed from the brine tank by suction in the injector assembly.

When you replaced the drive end cap assembly did you take any thing apart?
Like the piston from the main housing?
 
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Old 06-01-10, 02:21 PM
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Yes, I've pulled the entire piston drive out of the assembly a number of times. I've also hooked the drive assembly up to the control panel outside of the assembly just to verify that it is indeed moving from left to right. Everything seems to be working fine. And yet, whenever I empty the tank, put in two gallons of clean water and regenerate a few times, the water is up to the top of the brine cabinet by the 3 regeneration.

I'm really at a loss and wonder if the problem could be with the tank itself. Is there a way to check this? What's frustrating is that the tank is still under warranty but Waterboss won't replace it unless I send them the old one back for inspection. This is after they've spent hours with me on the phone ruling every other possible problem.

But I thank you again for all of your suggestions. I really do appreciate.
 
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Old 06-01-10, 04:25 PM
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I realize that I am coming in late on this thread but it seems like all the usual matters have been covered.

A couple of questions:

1. You say it is still under warranty--did it ever work or has the problem been there from the beginning?
2. Have you confirmed that you have at least the specification pressure and flow at the softner? (The venturi to draw brine from the brine tank requires adequate pressure and flow to work).
 
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Old 06-02-10, 04:28 AM
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Hi Bob,

Yes, the water softerner used to work fine. About 6 weeks ago, the wheel stopped turning and Waterboss sent me a new one but it was still locking up for some reason. Waterboss then sent me a whole new piston assembly, which I installed, and everything seemed fine for a few weeks although I must say, since I got the new assembly, the water never really seemed properly "softened". Then the draining problem kicked in. I thought perhaps it was related to the new assembly they sent me but, as you can see, have tried everything I can think of.

I'm now debating either tossing the unit or calling a plumber.

Thanks.
 
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Old 06-02-10, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gfrobe
In phase 2 of the regen, is water supposed to be draining from the black tank inside or from the brine cabinet itself? And if the brine piston is working fine, is there something else I can check? You mention a possible plug in the drain line discharge point. Is that part of the assembly or somewhere in the bottom of the tank? If it's in the assembly (where the discharge pipe connects to assembly), I've already taken that out and made sure it was clear with the help of Waterboss tech support.

Sorry to keep asking but any other ideas what it could be? Waterboss is suggesting I call in a plumber but wondering what a plumber could do that I haven't already.

Thanks again.
The first phase of regeneration is backwash--it will be a higher flow to the drain (I assume you have checked the drain line for kinks and that you have pulled it off and checked it for obstruction of any sort--including at the drain it goes into). The second (and third phase) of regeneration has a lower flow to the drain and at the beginning of these phases the brine should be drawn from the brine tank to flow through the resin tank and out the drain. Once the available brine is drawn out the process continues with water--a slow rinse--until the timer moves to phase four which is a second backwash (higher flow to drain).

After the second backwash the unit then goes to the next stage where water is added to the brine tank to make brine for the next regeneration. Finally the valve cycles to service position.

So it appears that your problem is that the brine is not being pulled from the brine tank. All of the discussion has been focused on the valve and components at the top of the resin tank. The other possible area of problem is the brine intake which is located at the bottom of the safety float assembly. When there is available brine this valve is supposed to be open and then as the brine level falls it is supposed to close to prevent the introduction of air. From your description the brine level never falls.

I suggest you remove the brine safety valve assembly (referred to as air check in the manual) and check it for dirt, etc and also check the brine line from the safety float assembly to the valve at the head.
 
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Old 06-02-10, 04:30 PM
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Hi Bob,

Thanks for that. Embarrassingly, I have not completely disconnected the drain line to make sure there is no clog in there. I did examine it for pinches, etc. and as I can see water going through it, I figured it was fine. But I will do that.

I did pull out the float assembly and didn't see anything obviously wrong but will look again. It did make a strange kind of sucking noise when I pulled it our of the cabinet though and I was worried as whether it needs to form some kind of tight seal on the bottom. Putting it back, I simply reconnected lowered it into the slot and connected the screw again. Hopefully that's all there is to it?
 
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Old 06-02-10, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by gfrobe
Hi Bob,

Thanks for that. Embarrassingly, I have not completely disconnected the drain line to make sure there is no clog in there. I did examine it for pinches, etc. and as I can see water going through it, I figured it was fine. But I will do that.

I did pull out the float assembly and didn't see anything obviously wrong but will look again. It did make a strange kind of sucking noise when I pulled it our of the cabinet though and I was worried as whether it needs to form some kind of tight seal on the bottom. Putting it back, I simply reconnected lowered it into the slot and connected the screw again. Hopefully that's all there is to it?
The safety float/air check assembly simply goes down in the tube--no external seals at the botton.

When you pull it out again pay particular attention to the air check at the bottom--that the valve opens and closes fully and has no foreign matter in it. Also ensure free flow from the fitting at the top down to the air check--hold the float up to ensure the safety valve is open and with the valve out of water you should be able to blow freely down from the fitting at the top but if suction is applied there should be a tight seal (the air check when the brine level drops).
 
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Old 06-02-10, 06:02 PM
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Hague/WaterBoss did not put a lot of tubing between the brine assembly and the float assembly... so that might be a bit of a challenge to do that test.
 
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Old 06-03-10, 04:05 PM
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I've pulled the float assembly out and not really sure what I'm looking at. The float assembly at top seems to be fine i.e. everything is moving. At the bottom, I see the thing that looks like a capsule and I assume that's the air check. However, I don't see any valves or anything like that on it. Also, if I turn the whole assembly upside, something inside the capsule is loose and clunking around in there. Is there supposed to be something moving in there?
 
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Old 06-03-10, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gfrobe
I've pulled the float assembly out and not really sure what I'm looking at. The float assembly at top seems to be fine i.e. everything is moving. At the bottom, I see the thing that looks like a capsule and I assume that's the air check. However, I don't see any valves or anything like that on it. Also, if I turn the whole assembly upside, something inside the capsule is loose and clunking around in there. Is there supposed to be something moving in there?
In the air check there is a ball that floats in brine and when there is brine it allows the brine to be sucked up the assembly and into the softener. As the brine level falls the ball covers the opening and shuts the opening preventing the suction of air. So yes you should hear the ball inside the air check. What you need to ensure is that there isn't crude that is obstructing the flow of brine when the ball is lifted off the air check valve and that there is no crud or obstruction anywhere in the path that the brine flows from the air check up through the safety valve and out through the fitting at the top to the safety valve that goes to the softener valve.
 
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Old 06-16-10, 10:20 PM
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Salt around air check valve causing the problem?

I also have much too much water in the softener. I removed the air check assembly. Then I noted that the base (where the valve is) was buried in salt. The tube/housing in which the assembly sits is filled with about 8 inches of salt. Am I correct that this is a problem? I don't know how I could prevent this because the tube/housing is not flush with the wall of the unit. Thus salt will always drift into this area. Any ideas? Thanks.
 
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Old 06-17-10, 08:40 AM
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Sounds like a Culligan.
The Brine Well as it is called should be all the way to the floor of the brine tank.
There is another way around that , if there is another cap like at the top of the brine well at the bottom of the brine well then one only has to make sure that the float assembly does not get pushed all the way to the bottom or pushes out the cap at the bottom.
 
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Old 12-29-10, 08:03 PM
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Hi there.

Recently my 6-years old Waterboss 900 started filling up the brine cabinet with water until the safety float shuts the water off. According to the owner’s manual it can be caused by one of 4 things:

1. Kinked drain hose - it is not.
2. Plugged up air brine line - it is not.
3. Plugged injector assembly - it is not.
4. Brine valve stuck open - it is not.

I took everything apart several times and inspected it, everything is clean. The brine valve assembly was replaced less then a year ago, (had another high-water level problem) along with the magnetic wheel, and works flawlessly.

When I push the "Regenerate" button, the machine goes through all cycles. It drains the brine out of the brine cabinet, which confirms that there is no blockage anywhere.

However, on the very last cycle, when it refills the brine cabinet with fresh water, the knob on the magnetic wheel opens the brine valve and keeps it open until the brine cabinet is almost full and the safety float shuts the water off. About 15 seconds later, the servo motor turns the magnetic wheel, which releases the brine valve and allows it to close. It almost sounds like a computer sends the signal to the motor too late. No errors are displayed on the screen.

When I called Customer Service, they weren't much help. One lady insisted I needed a new brine valve, another one told me that I need a new end cap assembly. Instead of listening, they were busy trying to sell me some parts. I tried to explain to them, that mechanically everything works fine and the problem is with the servo motor not receiving the signal to turn and to release the valve sooner.

I read whole bunch of horror stories on the Internet about Waterboss lack of support and bad Customer Service. So far, unfortunately, most of those stories regarding calling the "help line" are true.

Is there a way to re-set the control board? If I have to spend $192 for a new one, I'd rather spend $500 for a new softener, and it ain't gonna be a Waterboss.

Thanks.
 

Last edited by arnieosp; 12-29-10 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 12-30-10, 07:15 AM
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To reset the electronics you can try removing power for 60 seconds and repowering.

I am more inclined to think the problem is that there is insufficient power to close the valve when the water is running--that once the mechanical safety valve stops flow then the valve moves. If my suspicions are correct--and I don't have experience with the unit to back them up--then it could be the valve is sticky and takes an unusual amount of force to close or the closure mechanism is not developing full power. If you have some silicone grease you could try lubricating the valve to see if that helps.
 
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Old 12-30-10, 10:15 AM
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The Brine piston is closed by a spring, now it could be that the spring is not right or what I found on 3 of the water bosses years ago.. a piece of plastic in the drain.. remove the drain end cap and there where the main piston with the rubber disc touches it there was a piece of plastic in the opening and cutting off the flow to the drain.
 
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Old 12-30-10, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob999
To reset the electronics you can try removing power for 60 seconds and repowering.

I am more inclined to think the problem is that there is insufficient power to close the valve when the water is running--that once the mechanical safety valve stops flow then the valve moves. If my suspicions are correct--and I don't have experience with the unit to back them up--then it could be the valve is sticky and takes an unusual amount of force to close or the closure mechanism is not developing full power. If you have some silicone grease you could try lubricating the valve to see if that helps.
Thank you for the quick responses, folks. No, the valve is not sticking. The only reason the valve does not close, is because the one of the three knobs on the magnetic wheel pushes onto the valve and keeps it open. The valve can't close until the wheel turns and the knob moves out of the way, releasing the valve. And THAT doesn't happen until the brine cabinet is full of water, the float shut the water off, then few seconds later the little motor comes to life, turns the wheel couple of degrees, which allows the valve to snap close.

This is why I think it's an electronic problem. I would be willing to spend $200for the new control board, if I knew 100% that it would fix the stupid thing. Unfortunately, I don't know anybody around here with a Waterboss, who I could borrow the control unit from, to run it through a regeneration.

I disconnected the computer for few minutes, will see what happens. If it still bad, my Waterboss is taking a trip to the dump. I am thinking about this unit: Fleck. Any opinions?
 
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Old 12-30-10, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by arnieosp
Thank you for the quick responses, folks. No, the valve is not sticking. The only reason the valve does not close, is because the one of the three knobs on the magnetic wheel pushes onto the valve and keeps it open. The valve can't close until the wheel turns and the knob moves out of the way, releasing the valve. And THAT doesn't happen until the brine cabinet is full of water, the float shut the water off, then few seconds later the little motor comes to life, turns the wheel couple of degrees, which allows the valve to snap close.

This is why I think it's an electronic problem. I would be willing to spend $200for the new control board, if I knew 100% that it would fix the stupid thing. Unfortunately, I don't know anybody around here with a Waterboss, who I could borrow the control unit from, to run it through a regeneration.

I disconnected the computer for few minutes, will see what happens. If it still bad, my Waterboss is taking a trip to the dump. I am thinking about this unit: Fleck. Any opinions?
Sounds like you are trying to put more water in the brine tank than the float will allow.
Most likely the refill time is to high or the salt setting is to high and the brine tank is not that big nor is the float that high.
Sadly the control that you using does not have the features needed to change the time settings for each part of the cycle, Hague short changed that part when they went with the control that you have on this.. it is the same control that is on the rest of the Hague units and the main reason a number of Hague Dealers are no longer dealing with the units, lack of control on cleaning cycles like on the old Gold Crown line or the WaterMax first controls that had the level of programing that one could change to better fit the needs of the water it was dealing with.
I have ended up with a few water boss controls because of other reasons.
 
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Old 12-30-10, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Akpsdvan
Sounds like you are trying to put more water in the brine tank than the float will allow....

...I have ended up with a few water boss controls because of other reasons.
I am not trying to do anything, the stupid machine does. I've been using this thing for 6 years. The brine valve went out a year ago and I replaced it. It was working fine for the last year, and then, out of the blue, this started happening.

I you have few water boss controls, do you have one that would fit Waterboss 900? If yes, would you be willing to sell one? If yes, how much, shipped to Oregon?

Thanks.
 
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Old 12-31-10, 07:03 AM
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Fleck makes a good valve. Selection of the specific valve depends on flow rates. Fleck makes 3/4", 1", and 1.25" residential valves. If your supply plumbing is 3/4 the 5600 is a good choice. With larger supply plumbing a different valve might be desirable. Size of resin tank depends on water hardness/iron/manganese and gallons used per day. If you provide these figures can provide a recommendation.
 
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Old 12-31-10, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob999
Fleck makes a good valve. Selection of the specific valve depends on flow rates. Fleck makes 3/4", 1", and 1.25" residential valves. If your supply plumbing is 3/4 the 5600 is a good choice. With larger supply plumbing a different valve might be desirable. Size of resin tank depends on water hardness/iron/manganese and gallons used per day. If you provide these figures can provide a recommendation.
I am on a city water, but the city draws the water from 11 different wells located around town. All those wells are tied into a network, so, it is impossible to tell which particular well my house gets the water from. The water in general is pretty hard and has iron in it. Without a water softener people get orange rings in their toilets, an dishwashers and teapots turn orange inside.

I had my water softener in since the house was built in 04. I went to the city and asked them for the water tests. They provide me with 11 different tests, one for each well. I went down the list and picked the highest of 11 numbers in each of the categories, and this is what I came up with, kind of the worst case scenario. Keep in mind, that those are the highest numbers, the averages are lower for each category.

pH -8.02 pH units.
Calcium - 32.2 mg/l
Chloride - 22.6 mg/l
Iron - 0.407 mg/l
Hardness - 174 mg/l
Manganese - 0.267 mg/l

The supply line to and from the current Waterboss is 3/4, and the amount and quality of water produced by the Waterboss 900, which allegedly has 36,400 grains capacity, was very satisfactory. So, what size of Fleck do you think I should go with?

Thank you very much again, for helping me out. I feel blessed finding this board.
 
  #34  
Old 12-31-10, 01:19 PM
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Your compensated hardness is 14 grains. So if there are 4 people in the home using a typical amount of water--60 gpd/person that would be 240 gpd x 14 grains = 3360 grains per day. If you want the softener to regenerate every 7 days--a good number for water efficiency--that would be ~24,000 grains. For good salt efficiency you want to regenerate with 6 lbs/cubic foot of resin which yields ~ 19,000 grains capacity. So if you have 4 people I would recommend a Fleck 5600 with 1.5 cubic foot of resin. Set it up to regenerate with 9 lbs of salt, 28,000 grains capacity, 14 grains hardness, and 8 day override.
Fewer people--smaller amount of resin. More people--larger amount of resin.
 
  #35  
Old 12-31-10, 02:39 PM
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Thanks, Bob.

The unit I am looking at, Fleck 5600sxt has 32000 grain capacity, but only 1 cubic foot of resin. The one with 1.5 feet is advertised as 48000 grain. So, should I disregard the advertised capacity number and just go with 1.5 cubic foot of resin, whatever it comes with? Also, some of them offer a turbulator, do I need one? Is it worth extra $40?

Thanks again.
 
  #36  
Old 12-31-10, 09:50 PM
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A 1.5 cubic foot unit has a maximum capacity of 48,000 grains when regenerated with 15+ lbs of salt per cubic foot of resin--but that results in salt efficiency of less than 2000 grains per lb of salt compared to efficiency of 3300+ grains per lb of salt when using 6 lbs/cubic foot.

So if you have 4 in your household I recommend a 1.5 cubic foot unit set up as I described--the usable capacity is determined by the salt dose used for regeneration.

Turbulators are not typically necessary with municipal water supplies and I do not recommend one with your water analysis.
 
  #37  
Old 01-03-11, 10:31 PM
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Thanks for all your help, Bob.

I just placed an order for a 48000 grain softener with Fleck 5600SXT valve and 1.5 lbs of resin. I ordered it from this place.The guy I spoke on the phone with (his initials were TR), was very helpful. He suggested not to spend any money for a turbulator or any special resin or any other extras. They will even program the unit before they ship it. I gave them all the number you recommended for programing.

The total out-the-door price, including UPS shipping was $549. This experience made even more clear how much the WaterBoss so called "customer service" sucks.

Thanks again Bob!
 
  #38  
Old 05-15-12, 12:47 PM
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Waterboss 900 repair

waterboss 900; too much water in brine tank; remove drain end cap assembly and remove sediment, use a small wire inserted from the hose side pushing sediment out. I found a large piece of gum material, probably sealant that had broken loose to clog the small hole.
 
 

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