Adding a permeate pump to RO-4 (RO-PURE)


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Old 02-05-10, 11:53 AM
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Adding a permeate pump to RO-4 (RO-PURE)

I purchased a Watts Premier RO-4 from Costco. I'm definitely new to the world of water filtering so was shocked to learn how much wasted water occurs in the reverse osmosis system. I quickly learned that I needed to add a permeate pump, but I have a few questions about installation.

1 - The system already has a shut off valve installed. The green input water line goes through the bottom two ports and into the manifold and a blue line coming out of the manifold going to the tank passes through the upper two ports. I believe that I need to remove this shut off valve completely from the system as the permeate pump (and another shut off valve to be discussed later) will fill this role. Is this correct?

2 - There is another blue line coming out of the manifold headed to the faucet, I believe that I end this line because the blue line going to the tank will go through the permeate pump and then tee, one half going to the tank and the other half going to the faucet. Anything wrong with this?

3 - The output water line will go through the other half of the permeate pump and then a drain, right?

4 - I think I need to install another shut off valve. Now, I've read that I need a 90% shut off valve and I hypothesize that the one that is already attached to my system is a 60% shut off valve so I can't reuse it, does this sound right? Also, I'm not exactly how to hook it up. I THINK that the input water line goes through the bottom two ports and that the line going out of the permeate pump to the water tank goes through the upper two ports before it gets to the tee.

5 - My psi is about 90-95 psi and the instructions recommend it be around 85 psi. Do I put a pressure regulator/flow restrictor on the input water line before the shut off valve or on the drain line coming out the permeate pump?

Here is the instruction manual for my unit: https://www.wattspremier.com/manuals/199404.pdf

I know this is a lot to ask of someone to help me with, but I thought I would just get all my questions out to start! I just want to hook this up correctly the first time.

Thanks for your help!

- Jared
 
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Old 02-05-10, 02:56 PM
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With a permeate pump, you must remove the auto shut off. Here are instructions for installing the pump. Installing Your Permeate Pump

The pump is to be installed the membrane and the pressure tank (permeate side) and the membrane and the drain saddle clamp (waste side).
 
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Old 02-09-10, 09:39 AM
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Confused...

Now I'm confused. Watts sent me a diagram of how I'm supposed to connect the permeate pump to the RO system, but it's different than everything else I've been seeing.

http://utahexchange.com/images/permeate.jpg

Does it make sense why it is so different?

- Jared
 
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Old 02-10-10, 10:41 AM
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Permeate Pump on Watts RO-PURE

Originally Posted by jaredutah View Post
Now I'm confused. Watts sent me a diagram of how I'm supposed to connect the permeate pump to the RO system, but it's different than everything else I've been seeing.

http://utahexchange.com/images/permeate.jpg

Does it make sense why it is so different?

- Jared
Hey Jared,
Looks like we are in the same boat on this. I have seen you on several other sites.
So I sent an E-mail to Watts and I am sure I will get the same diagram that you got. I am going to go with that. I also order the 90% valve. I think in the long run that is the way to go. It you are pulling lots of water (like a gallon) all the time you don't even need a shut off. the Permeate pump will act like the shut off. If you are like me and will be pulling glasses of water and use ice maker, then go with the 90% valve. The 60% that comes with it will work. It just won't give you max performance. This is from Aquatec;

"Q. Is an Automatic Shut-off Valve required?
A. We recommend using a high volume shut off valve with our Permeate Pumps to avoid “TDS creep” during startup each time a small quantity of water is produced."

I also order a drain adapter DLA-D Drain Line Adapter - FreshWaterSystems.com

I did find a good deal on the ERP 1000 permeate pump on Amazon. I understand they just came out with a quiet permeate pump ERP 500. I am not sure how loud the 1000 is but it has double the output. 100GPD vs. 50GPD. I hope I am not going to regret getting the 1000.
 

Last edited by Mrlarry; 02-10-10 at 10:43 AM. Reason: no title
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Old 02-10-10, 10:51 AM
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I ordered that same pump off of Amazon. I think I will get the 90% shut-off valve like you mentioned, that seems to be what most people do. I'm installing mine in my basement because my utility room is right under the kitchen, so my drain will be going into the drain of the clothes washer. Hopefully being in the utility room will also avoid any noises that come out of any of the equipment!

I appreciate your reply, I'll post my results on here when I get it all hooked up and running, if I can't get to it this weekend, hopefully I'll be able to do it the next one.
 
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Old 02-16-10, 03:40 PM
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Hooked up, but not sure if correctly done

Larry,

I received my 90% shut off valve and hooked it up according the diagram sent to me by watts (Diagram), but I'm not sure it's connected properly. The valve that I bought is this one:
Auto ShutOff Valve

On one side of the shut off valve you have "in" labeled for the bottom and you have "out" labeled on the top and on the other side both the bottom and top are labeled "tank".

So I hooked up the incoming water supply to the bottom port labeled "in" and then the line that is green and goes to the manifold I have coming out of the same side which is labeled "out".

Then on the other side I have the line that goes to the tank coming out of the top port labeled "tank" (corresponding to the out port on the other side) and I have the line coming from the permeate pump going into the bottom port labeled "tank" (corresponding to the in port on the other side of the shut off valve).

Does this seem right? Anyone care to chime in? If this doesn't work, I may try to switch it to a more traditional hook up mentioned in other places (including this one: Review)
 
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Old 02-18-10, 11:31 PM
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Watts RO-Pure and permeate pump

Hey Jared,

I hooked mine up exactly as you did, but I have the tank line going in and permeate out line going to the out. Both sides are labeled tank and tank. I don't think it matters because the water travels both ways. I hope, anyway. It is cycling on about 1 second and off about 1.5 seconds. Does this sound like what you have going on. I did find this;

The high pressure side of the ASOV is labeled with "In" & "Out".
The low pressure side of the ASOV is labeled with "Tank". The low pressure side in and out correspond to the same orientation as the high pressure side.

I switched mine. It took less than 2hrs to fill the tank. When go to empty it flows a bit slow and pulses a bit. I am going to test the pressure of the tank on the next empty.
 

Last edited by Mrlarry; 02-19-10 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 02-19-10, 08:58 AM
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permeate Pump on Watts RO-PURE

Okay, I just switch it back. I am not sure this really matters but from this image, which was sent to me from Watts it looks like the RO tank goes on the in. I am also finding it strange that when I go to drain the tank it come out slow and pulses with the pump. When I shut off the incoming water, the water from the tank really comes out fast. I don't know it this is normal. I did notice something about a restrictor valve on the Brine in line. I am going to contact support at Aquatec. Here is the image from watts:

 
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Old 02-19-10, 09:19 AM
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Shut Off Valve

Larry,

I'll be interested to hear what Watts has to say. I couldn't get it to work though based on their hookup diagram. I ended up removing the shut off valve and changed the configuration to work more like the traditional diagrams show, which is that I brought both blue lines coming out of the RO unit into a tee and then hooked that into the permeate in. In the permeate out, I branched the line, one to the tank, one to the faucet. The water source goes directly to the RO unit.

Once I did that, everything seemed to work just fine. The permeate pump pulses normally to fill up the tank, I have great water pressure, and it only comes on when some water is dispensed out of the faucet.

However, I don't know if I'm saving water over not having the permeate pump, I don't know how to test that. I tested my water and went from 207ppm to about 8ppm so I know the RO system is working, so that's a start!

My incoming water pressure is about 92psi so I don't know how that affects things either.

Lots to learn!

- Jared
 
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Old 02-19-10, 03:27 PM
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permeate Pump on Watts RO-PURE

Have not heard by from anyone yet. I believe it is working just fine. most of the noise is coming from the air gap port behind the faucet. I don't think there is anyway to quiet that. If you fill a large glass it runs for about 7-10 minutes. It is just a new sound to get use to. I will post any info I receive.
 
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Old 02-19-10, 07:22 PM
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I use to angle the hole in the drain. If the hole has a downward slope, the water doesn't make as much noise.
 
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Old 02-20-10, 01:36 AM
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permeate Pump on Watts RO-PURE

I had to run my drain thru the garbage disposal. I don't hear the water running down the drain. I hear it running thru the air gap on the faucet itself.
I am really trying to figure out why, when I open the faucet valve the water comes out great for about 3/4 of a glass and then the pressure drops and then it pulses low/high/low/high etc. I am not sure if the pump is supposed to be pumping during the water draw from the tank. If anyone knows of something, please post. I hope I don't need to re-plumb. Here is a diagram I found from Aquatec for a manifold system. This would be lame if it is the solution. It look like you eliminate the post filter and then need to get a polishing filter. I would think not since this is printed 2/02 and the Watts diagram is 2008 I believe. Here is the link in case it is hard to read. http://www.aquatec.com/images/IMI-123.pdf

 
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Old 02-20-10, 10:29 AM
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Setup

Larry,

That diagram is exactly what I changed my system to, with the exception of using the end stop. I just brought my two blue outgoing tubes into a tee and then into the permeate pump.

I went this route because of the problem you are describing, where after a glass of water it begins pulsing and you have little pressure. After I switched over, I have great pressure constantly until the tank is almost empty, at which point it begins pulsing.

- Jared
 
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Old 02-21-10, 06:12 PM
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permeate Pump on Watts RO-PURE

Jared,

I think, I may go that route. I have several emails out and waiting for a reply. I wonder if by putting in a tee the water pulled out of the tank bypasses the post carbon filter (polishing filter). I never look at the filter manifold to see if it can be modified inside, so the water headed to the faucet runs through the final post filter. It is a little ridiculous that we have to go on the internet and search to figure out how to get our systems to work at an optimal level. These pumps are not new. I guess life is a little tougher being on the cutting edge. I hope to hear back from someone this week. IF not I am going to re-route.
 
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Old 02-22-10, 10:39 PM
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Re-route

Yeah, bypassing that final polishing filter is probably not ideal, however, I'm not sure else what to do at this point. Maybe you'll get some good ideas in those replies to your emails. At the very least, the water is getting reverse osmosified!
 
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Old 02-23-10, 11:00 PM
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permeate Pump on Watts RO-PURE

Okay I only heard back from Watts and they said to switch back the to the original Auto Shut-off Valve. I did and now it works perfect. Lots of pressure all the time. Really, the only difference in the two valves is one brings the tank to 60% and the other brings it to 90%. That is 3 gallons instead of 4.5 gallons. Since this pump fills the tank two to three times as fast as a normal RO system, I don't think the extra 1.5 gallons matters at all. So basically I can pull up to 3 gallons of RO water every 2hrs. Hey that more than meets my needs. I don't think that the 90% ASV is designed for this type of manifold system. I don't see anyone running water back and forth thru the valve like what is required for this manifold system. Great water. It seems to get louder as the tank fills. If I get anymore info I will share, but as of now I am good. If anyone know how to quiet it down, I would love to hear.
 

Last edited by Mrlarry; 02-24-10 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 02-24-10, 08:19 AM
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Shut Off Valve

Thanks for the info! I want to check the pressure on the tank when it's full, after a glass of water, after a gallon of water, etc., just to see what it is. I know I should probably switch back to Watt's configuration, but I'm a little tired right now of switching lines around, so for now, I'll just keep it the way it is until I feel that urge to tinker once again!

(Anyone want to buy a 90% shut off valve?)
 
 

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