pipe leak from well - questions/update
#1
09-22-04, 09:15 AM
pipe leak from well - questions/update
I posted sometime ago about pipe leak from well etc. Now really need advice/suggestions. I will try to be as brief as possible and still give needed info.
The pump was running often and short - brought up pressure in bladder to where it is supposed to be and it helped some. We may still need new tank but that is currently secondary - (It is over 20 years old)
Main problem: Leak in pipe coming from well.
1)We have excavated down and found leak in plastic pipe close to/maybe into poured concrete wall. (the water was leaking in the house at wall but NOT enough to account for the water loss) In either case, too close for coupling so need to replace all the way through poured concrete wall.
2) the pipe entrance is 6.5 feet under ground in pure sand.
3) We guestimate the thinkness of the poured concrete at this point to be 12 in. thick. Apparently filled in with concrete after installation - however at this point, have no idea if it is filled in solid with concrete. We have started to drill away around the pipe and it seems to be "softer" than surrounding area.
Questions!!!!
1) best way to proceed to remove pipe (assuming cutting inside and outside beforehand)??
2) Replace with galvanized pipe or plastic pipe that was there?? pros/cons?
3) Best way to refill area that was removed? Concrete? silicone caulk? combination? other?
HELP! My husband tried to get a well man our here but we had no luck so we are trying to do it ourselves and want to do it right. He is asking others for suggestions but you have helped us isolate the problems and appreciate your input. Thank you for your time/review! Clarice
The pump was running often and short - brought up pressure in bladder to where it is supposed to be and it helped some. We may still need new tank but that is currently secondary - (It is over 20 years old)
Main problem: Leak in pipe coming from well.
1)We have excavated down and found leak in plastic pipe close to/maybe into poured concrete wall. (the water was leaking in the house at wall but NOT enough to account for the water loss) In either case, too close for coupling so need to replace all the way through poured concrete wall.
2) the pipe entrance is 6.5 feet under ground in pure sand.
3) We guestimate the thinkness of the poured concrete at this point to be 12 in. thick. Apparently filled in with concrete after installation - however at this point, have no idea if it is filled in solid with concrete. We have started to drill away around the pipe and it seems to be "softer" than surrounding area.
Questions!!!!
1) best way to proceed to remove pipe (assuming cutting inside and outside beforehand)??
2) Replace with galvanized pipe or plastic pipe that was there?? pros/cons?
3) Best way to refill area that was removed? Concrete? silicone caulk? combination? other?
HELP! My husband tried to get a well man our here but we had no luck so we are trying to do it ourselves and want to do it right. He is asking others for suggestions but you have helped us isolate the problems and appreciate your input. Thank you for your time/review! Clarice
#2
09-22-04, 04:31 PM
Group Moderator
Boy, you must be way up north if your water line was down that far.
If I understand correctly, you want to pull the old water line out of the wall and run the new line through it?
I would not dig up the old pipe. Just leave it in place and run your new pipe. It is probably a good idea to use the old hole through your foundation for the new pipe. After digging outside, I'd cut the old pipe off a foot or so from the foundation wall and VERY securely tape one end of your new pipe to it. Go inside the basement and pull the old pipe out, hopefully with the new pipe following.
I would use a high quality silicone caulk to seal around the pipe where it goes through the foundation wall.
I would use the black plastic pipe that is available in large coils. It is inexpensive, withstands freezing quite well and it does not rust. Also you can make one continuous run from the well head to your pressure tank without splices or connections.
If I understand correctly, you want to pull the old water line out of the wall and run the new line through it?
I would not dig up the old pipe. Just leave it in place and run your new pipe. It is probably a good idea to use the old hole through your foundation for the new pipe. After digging outside, I'd cut the old pipe off a foot or so from the foundation wall and VERY securely tape one end of your new pipe to it. Go inside the basement and pull the old pipe out, hopefully with the new pipe following.
I would use a high quality silicone caulk to seal around the pipe where it goes through the foundation wall.
I would use the black plastic pipe that is available in large coils. It is inexpensive, withstands freezing quite well and it does not rust. Also you can make one continuous run from the well head to your pressure tank without splices or connections.
#3
09-22-04, 07:43 PM
We live in a modified earthberm. The ground level is a foot+ above the second story floor - therefore the depth of the incoming water pipe.
Because of the depth - and difficult work area - we did NOT want to dig up the whole pipe - or put in a totally new one. Although maybe not ideal, we want to splice the pipe to the remaining good PE pipe. However, we thought maybe galvanized pipe would be stronger through cement (houses can move and settle). My husband talked to plumbers today and they said either would work - but PE pipe is generally used because it is cheaper and other reasons you mentioned but galvanized might be better.
Can you really just "pull the pipe" through cement?
Thank you for your input!
Because of the depth - and difficult work area - we did NOT want to dig up the whole pipe - or put in a totally new one. Although maybe not ideal, we want to splice the pipe to the remaining good PE pipe. However, we thought maybe galvanized pipe would be stronger through cement (houses can move and settle). My husband talked to plumbers today and they said either would work - but PE pipe is generally used because it is cheaper and other reasons you mentioned but galvanized might be better.
Can you really just "pull the pipe" through cement?
Thank you for your input!
#4
09-23-04, 04:00 AM
Group Moderator
I think you will have to dig down at least on the outside of the house. It will probably be a big hole unless you have some way to prevent the sand from caving into the hole.
Whether or not you can pull the pipe through the wall will depend on your luck, so keep a rabbits foot in your pocket and cross your fingers. Give it a try since you don't have anything to loose.
If you can't pull the pipe throuh then you will need to start chipping away at the concrete around the pipe. I'd get a large hammer drill or rotary hammer (if you don't own one you can rent them) and use a 3/8" or 1/2" diameter 12" long carbide masonry drill bit (you should wear safety glasses & ear plugs). Drill a series of closely spaced holes in a circular pattern around the pipe going through the wall. Try to keep the drill perpendicular/straight because the drill will want to angle in towards the pipe. The circle of holes around the water pipe weakens the concrete so you can chip it out with a chisel. Most hammer drills and rotary hammers can be set to just hammer and you can buy a chisel bit. Now you have a little jack hammer. After you get the pipe out, the hole in the concrete will be rough and much larger than your pipe. You will need to mix up some mortar to fill the hole. After the mortar sets, on the outside of your house, cover the repaired area with a good coating of foundation waterproofing tar to prevent water from seeping through the mortar and around the pipe.
Be patient. Even with the right tools it will take a long time to dig your hole outside the house and make a hole through 12" of concrete. This is not rocket science, just noisy, dirty and time consuming work.
Whether or not you can pull the pipe through the wall will depend on your luck, so keep a rabbits foot in your pocket and cross your fingers. Give it a try since you don't have anything to loose.
If you can't pull the pipe throuh then you will need to start chipping away at the concrete around the pipe. I'd get a large hammer drill or rotary hammer (if you don't own one you can rent them) and use a 3/8" or 1/2" diameter 12" long carbide masonry drill bit (you should wear safety glasses & ear plugs). Drill a series of closely spaced holes in a circular pattern around the pipe going through the wall. Try to keep the drill perpendicular/straight because the drill will want to angle in towards the pipe. The circle of holes around the water pipe weakens the concrete so you can chip it out with a chisel. Most hammer drills and rotary hammers can be set to just hammer and you can buy a chisel bit. Now you have a little jack hammer. After you get the pipe out, the hole in the concrete will be rough and much larger than your pipe. You will need to mix up some mortar to fill the hole. After the mortar sets, on the outside of your house, cover the repaired area with a good coating of foundation waterproofing tar to prevent water from seeping through the mortar and around the pipe.
Be patient. Even with the right tools it will take a long time to dig your hole outside the house and make a hole through 12" of concrete. This is not rocket science, just noisy, dirty and time consuming work.
#5
09-23-04, 02:39 PM
Thanks again! Yep - it IS a big job.....
As I mentioned in the original "1)We have excavated down and found leak in plastic pipe close to/maybe into poured concrete wall."
The area is tight to work in and not much space to put all the sand from that big of hole. Luckily, my husband brought home a machine to do it or we would have been pulling up sand bucket by bucket!
That is why we do NOT want to dig all the way to the well pump - no place to go with everything! (already totally closed in.....)
No one commented on the galvanized pipe (pros/cons other than running a single piece - which we can't do anyway) ...... probably too late now though, since he has already purchased everything. Tomorrow is the day for drilling, chiseling..... etc.....
Wish us luck! (We are having company this weekend...... hopefully will have water!)
As I mentioned in the original "1)We have excavated down and found leak in plastic pipe close to/maybe into poured concrete wall."
The area is tight to work in and not much space to put all the sand from that big of hole. Luckily, my husband brought home a machine to do it or we would have been pulling up sand bucket by bucket!
That is why we do NOT want to dig all the way to the well pump - no place to go with everything! (already totally closed in.....)No one commented on the galvanized pipe (pros/cons other than running a single piece - which we can't do anyway) ...... probably too late now though, since he has already purchased everything. Tomorrow is the day for drilling, chiseling..... etc.....
Wish us luck! (We are having company this weekend...... hopefully will have water!)
#6
10-17-04, 10:31 AM
PVC is better
WE are doing the same thing except we have to dig the entire line up.
Galvanized piping was part of our problem (abig part of it) it rust and and builds up and restricts the flow of water and puts more preasure on the rest of the line causing any weak points to break, pvc does not rust and is cheaper as far as cost that is it can be just as strong. (PE pipe is made for 200lbs of pressure)
A core drill can be rented to go through the wall ,it does a cleaner job and is much easier to use.
Let me know if all this takes care of your problem cause we are doing the same thing.(except we are sleeving all the PE pipe inside of 2" pvc so we hope we will never dig again-for water that is.)
Good luck
Kevin e
Galvanized piping was part of our problem (abig part of it) it rust and and builds up and restricts the flow of water and puts more preasure on the rest of the line causing any weak points to break, pvc does not rust and is cheaper as far as cost that is it can be just as strong. (PE pipe is made for 200lbs of pressure)
A core drill can be rented to go through the wall ,it does a cleaner job and is much easier to use.
Let me know if all this takes care of your problem cause we are doing the same thing.(except we are sleeving all the PE pipe inside of 2" pvc so we hope we will never dig again-for water that is.)
Good luck
Kevin e
