Foot Valve


  #1  
Old 10-23-04, 10:05 PM
Jon Foster
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Foot Valve

Ok, I've read most of the threads on well problems tonight (here and at peekspump.com) and have come up with what I think is my problem. I think my foot valve is not closing. My well will loose it's prime if I shut the pump off. I can hear the water flowing back into the well. I've closed the valve from the well going to the house as well as the pressure tank. As soon as the pump is turned off, it looses the prime in a few seconds. So, what I have now is the problem of replacing the foot valve. My pump and tank are in the basement of my house. A pipe comes into the basement through the wall to the pump etc. The pipe is about 5 feet underground. Outside in front of my house is a well head sticking above ground about a foot or so. What do I need to do? Do I need to dig around the pipe until I reach the pipe going into the house? Then what? Take the top of the well casing off at the point where the horizontal pipe meets the well casing? I'm guessing there will be a 90 degree elbow there and I will need to take that apart as well. Then I can pull the well pipe out of the well to replace the foot valve? I guess I can do that if it's needed but it will be a lot of manual work! After that, I put it all back together and seal it up so nothing gets into the well system... Should I also sanitize the system after doing all this work and if so, how?

Thanks again everyone, Jon.
 
  #2  
Old 10-24-04, 08:43 AM
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I would install a check valve back at the pump if there is considerable difficulty reaching the foot valve.
 
  #3  
Old 10-24-04, 02:05 PM
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I think your casing is buried, right? If so you may be able to find it with a small probe or a metal detector. Otherwise you dig down to the line at the house and then follow that back to the well. Yes there probably is a 90 elbow but you could have a pitless adapter and the casing buried. Once you find it you have to be able to lift and hold the drop pipe while you pull it out.

Gary
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Last edited by Doug Aleshire; 03-11-05 at 08:30 PM.
  #4  
Old 10-24-04, 03:07 PM
Jon Foster
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Well, I did a couple things today. I thought I had the system figured out but I ran into a new item I hadn't counted on before...

I took the cap off the well today and found a smaller pipe inside. I think it's 1" or 1 1/4". It has a cast iron housing at the top that I'm guessing is to center it in the well casing... I dropped a string with a small nut on it down the center pipe and it hit water less than 4 feet from the top of the well head. The nut also stopped at about 5.5 feet down from the top of the well head. I have no idea what parts these are or what they do or how they attach etc. So I left them alone until I can figure things out. The links below are pictures of the open well casing.

Open well casing 1

Open well casing 2

I also found something odd. I used a huge pipe wrench to take the well cap off, it's a 3" I.D. casing so the cap was over 4" requiring a rather large wrench... Well, wouldn't you know it, as I started to really reef on the cap to loosen it the well casing started to turn instead of the cap. I figured that wasn't a good thing so I tightened the casing as tight as I could get it then used another pipe wrench with a 5 foot long pipe on it to hold the casing while I got the cap off. Long story short, after finding the stuff in the pictures above, I put the cap back on and tightened everything as tight as I could get it again. Now, the pump isn't running every 10 seconds any more. I can still watch the pressure gage and see it dropping slowly but now it's a good 15 minutes or more before the pump cycles. I'm wondering if something was loose up top and I just happened to tighten up whatever was loose that was allowing a leak?

Thanks for all help guys, Jon.
 
  #5  
Old 10-25-04, 06:16 PM
Jon Foster
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Our well was running a lot again today when we got home this afternoon. So just for grins I hit the well head with a hammer and it stopped. The pressure held for a few hours. Now it's doing it again so I'm going to smack it again to see if it holds pressure again.

Any idea's what could be doing this? The foot valve???

Thanks, Jon.
 
  #6  
Old 10-26-04, 05:25 AM
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Man I've never seen a well like that. The white bolts must be holding the drop pipe in the casing.... or so it would seem. But I don't see how you'd lossen the bolts and hold the cast part so it wouldn't fall on down the well. There's that little bit of thread in the center pipe area but... not much to get a hold of. Plus the red cast isn't tight inside the casing... Maybe you'd lift on those white bolts with wire rope or some tool.

I suggest calling well drillers in your area and pump supply houses until you find someone that knows what that stuff is by your description.

There may be a lose pipe connection underground where the line going to the house is connected through the side of the casing; usually through a pitless adapter. And the movement of the casing stopped a leak for a time.

MAybe there are threads down inside that pipe in the center of the red cast piece where your string and nut stopped.

Gary
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Last edited by Doug Aleshire; 03-11-05 at 08:30 PM.
  #7  
Old 10-26-04, 12:49 PM
Jon Foster
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I was all fired up and ready to pull the well apart and put a foot valve on along with making sure everything was nice and tight without any leaks... Talk about a show stopper. I saw that and was pretty much done. I'll check with some of the older well guys that I can find but most in this area are younger and all they will do is drill a new well for you. They won't even come out to look at a problem. They say they are too busy to do repair work. Go figure...

I'll keep this thread updated too if anyone has an interest in what this setup is like/for etc...

Thanks for the help guys!

Jon.
 

Last edited by Jon Foster; 10-26-04 at 04:26 PM.
  #8  
Old 10-26-04, 04:24 PM
Jon Foster
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Ok, this afternoon I dug down to the pitless adapter and took a couple pictures. I can't find much information on them online but I think I understand what will be involved to pull it off so I can change the foot valve. I was tempted to patch the system with a check valve by the pump but the weather is still warm enough to do the work and as long as I don't break something major or really screw something up badly, the cost shouldn't be too much more than a few dollars for the foot valve and a ejector. Our pressure has never been that great but the pump specs (Myers HJ50D and the original pressure switch of 30/50) are plenty high enough for our small household. We bought the house with the well like this so I thought that was just the breaks... So now, I figure I'll do the ejector at the same time and see if I can get things back to where I feel they should be. A while ago I replaced the original pressure switch with a 20/40 because the pump just couldn't keep up. This is turning out to be a good learning experience for me too. Below are a couple pictures taken this afternoon. And yes, the hole will be much larger so I can get down there to do the work later this week.

Pitless Adapter 1

Pitless Adapter 4 - The Adapter Itself

Thanks, Jon.
 
  #9  
Old 10-28-04, 11:28 AM
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I guess the outside pipe the cap was screwed onto could be unthreaded and then the pipe with the red cast on it would be exposed. It would appear the red cast centers the inside pipe and that pipe might be an air vent since your string stopped at about the tee the house line is attached to... That line comes off a tee right, not a pitless adapter. The tee has the external pipe the cap goes onto right? Then how do you lift the drop pipe... if not by the red cast part pipe hummm.... w e i r d!

A pump supply house should be able to tell you everything about this setup. They will be well pump distributor like Goulds etc. and you'll find them in the yellow pages.

Gary
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Last edited by Doug Aleshire; 03-11-05 at 08:29 PM.
  #10  
Old 10-29-04, 09:24 AM
Jon Foster
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I think there is a pitless adapter but I won't know for sure until I remove the horizontal line going to the house and look inside. Either way, I'm ready to pull it apart so I can fix this thing. My pump is still working like a champ but I'm worried that it'll give up soon due to the abuse it's taking. Of course, it's been pouring rain all day and everything is drenched. It should clear up this afternoon but I'll wait until tomorrow morning before I tear into it. Unless it continues to rain... I'll have more pictures and details of how things progress too.

Jon.
 
  #11  
Old 10-30-04, 09:06 PM
Jon Foster
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Ok, worked on the well this afternoon. I dug the hole bigger so I could get down there and work on the pitless adapter. It was actually pretty easy going at first. I took the casing cap off, loosened the three white lock bolts and unscrewed the top section of the casing from the pitless adapter. It was full of black muck so I cleaned it all up with fresh water. What I was left with was a 1" pipe sticking up from the pitless adapter. I turned it with a pipe wrench while pulling up and it came right out. It had an "O" ring for a seal at the top and bottom of the pitless adapter. I was able to pull the down pipe up with some effort while twisting it with a pipe wrench. Once it was a good way above ground I put 2x6 boards over the hole and started using a floor jack to force the pipe up. The well casing is only a 2" pipe so the 1" down pipe is really hard to pull up. Actually it's pretty much stuck right now. I can turn it easily but just can't get it to come up. I'll hook up a make-shift "A" frame to use as a hoist in the morning tomorrow so I can use a chain and one of my trucks to pull it the rest of the way. I've pretty much trashed the down pipe too so I'll have to buy new pipe after I get the old one out of the well and see how long it is. So far it's been pretty smooth work. I'll also measure the depth of the well and water level so I know what's going on in the future... Below are a few pictures I took this evening when I was wrapping things up for the night.

The well with the down pipe pulled up in the pitless adapter.

The pitless adapter. Note the O-rings at the top and bottom.

Rough picture of how far I got tonight. You can see the top of the pull pipe and the pitless adapter in the center.

Jon.

PS. Should I use regular galvanized pipe or PVC for the new down pipe?
 

Last edited by Jon Foster; 10-30-04 at 09:18 PM.
  #12  
Old 10-31-04, 09:31 PM
Jon Foster
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I got a really late start today and only managed to pull the pipe about another foot. I've bent this pipe so badly to this point a new pipe must be used when it goes back together... Anyway, a friend of ours is coming over in the morning to pull the pipe up the rest of the way with his skidster (bobcat). Then it's off to the store for new pipe and a foot valve!

Jon.
 
  #13  
Old 11-02-04, 10:16 AM
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Interesting. If possible I'd use sch 40 or 80 PVC instead of gavanized. Just don't mess up that piece with the o-ring on it...

I'd use metal above that piece to the top of the casing.

Gary
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Last edited by Doug Aleshire; 03-11-05 at 08:29 PM.
  #14  
Old 11-02-04, 01:00 PM
Jon Foster
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Well, I might be done. I broke the down pipe this afternoon. It broke about 10 feet down into the well. The pipe broke off at the threads going into the coupler at the next pipe... I'm looking around for a left hand pipe reemer so I can try removing the broken pipe end or even the coupler but I think the pipe still in the well will just turn and most likely slide back down into the well. If that doesn't work I'll have to call the well guy to come drill a new hole. Ouch. I was sooooo close too, there should have only been one more pipe section about 15 feet long to bring up. Oh well, at least I tried!

Jon.
 
  #15  
Old 11-03-04, 09:11 PM
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Sorry to hear that, you were doin' good.

Maybe that joint was your leak instead the foot valve...

Gary
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Last edited by Doug Aleshire; 03-11-05 at 08:29 PM.
  #16  
Old 11-04-04, 06:21 AM
Jon Foster
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Good point, I didn't think of that. It's been raining again and really poured last night so I don't think I'll be able to get a rig out here to start drilling today but maybe tomorrow with some luck!

Thanks again, Jon.
 
 

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