Help w/New Deep Well Pump Install


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Old 12-26-08, 06:02 PM
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Question Help w/New Deep Well Pump Install

Hi all...new here and looks like I can find the answers I need here. Our Flotec pump burned out (I am assuming), purchased new one, have already installed...well..95% of the way. Following is my info:

Well
1: submersible pump = Yes, 4"
2: age of well if known = 6 years
3: depth of well if known = 350' (by measurement of pipe we pulled out)
4: diameter of well if known = 6"
5: voltage of pump if known = 230 VAC
6: brand of pump = Flotec 1Hp Model FP2232
7: size of tank if known = Not Sure, small only about 4' tall - Pre-charged
_________________________________________________

Here is my dilemma....this is my 1st ever pump installation. We lowered the pump, etc and got to the last 15' 1" hose, which by then ws very heavy of course.

I have one of these well caps that is constructed with a split steel base on top, with 4 hex bolts and a thick rubber gasket on the bottom (original that was in place when well was built). A plumber friend of mine (whom is out of town for the week) told me to put a little bit of vaseline on the gasket to ease the fit into the well standpipe. It was almost dark by this point and my wife, well, put "alot" of vaseline around the edge whilst myself and two others were holding the weight of the pump, etc. Lowered the cap down.

I am clueless as to how these caps work, but pretty much figured out by tightening the hex bolts, something within the gasket spreads it out to form the seal and securing the 1" hose. Well, as I tightened, the right half of the split cap popped out of the standpipe and kept popping out hence too much lube. What do I need to do now....lift this back out and thoroughly clean the vaseline off? I am very nervous doing this as I am afraid of losing the pump.

What is the correct procedure for tightening these caps? I am assuming the split piece should be even on each side and meet flush with the other piece. What actually is inside this gasket that makes it spread out? That is mystifying to me.

Will this cap provide enough "grasp" to hold this weight? You don't want to know how I found it (the original install)

Also, why in the world is this well so deep? I can shine a flashlight down the pipe and see water maybe less than 100" down.

I also had forgeign matter go down with the hose...ie: dirt particles, etc. I assume that leaving the pump sit over night any of this should have settled to the bottom and will be ok.

Thanks so much for your help...we have been out of water since Tuesday morning....
 
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Old 12-26-08, 07:00 PM
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I am amusing this is the kind of well seal you are talking about. The four bolts should go through the rubber and into another plate on the bottom. It is not really necessary to tighten them. Once you have it down in the casing, you can put some sealer on the holes and the split to seal it up. The ridge of the seal should set flush with the casing.
As far as it popping out, I am not sure what you are saying. You can't put too much lube on the seal. If you could get a pic of the well, there may be an easy fix, other than trying to pick it up again.

The dirt that fell in, should not hurt anything. When you start the pump up, let it run for about ten to fifteen min. That should clean out any of the small stuff that may have fallen in.

The depth of your well is determined by where you live. That may be how deep the wells have to be in your area. The well may be a low producing well, and the extra depth may act as a retention well.
The water level is determined by the amount of pressure on the water strata.


Travis
 
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Old 12-26-08, 10:52 PM
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I understand your confusion as well Travis about this well seal, because after searching, I see that they do have a bottom plate... found it on this site here. It looks just like the last one on this page, except blue. The Double Drop Pipe - Split Plate.

We had to loosen the bolts to remove it from the casing and when we tighten the bolts it compresses it but then with the lube on it, it starts to push it out one side of the casing. I have to tighten it in order to "clamp" the weight of the drop pipe (hose) or there is nothing to secure the weight...so I stand confused. Any idea's? Yes, I can take a pic of it in the morning. I need to figure out something so I can finish the connections and get our water back on before dark.

Thanks!
 
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Old 12-27-08, 07:56 AM
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Are you trying to use the well seal as a clamp? That is not going to work very well. Trying to hold the pipe with the well seal is not going to work.
Why do you have the one with two holes? Did you have a jet pump at one time in the past? It doesn't matter. The one you have will still work.
I have seen hose clamps used, but they cut the pipe (hose).
You are going to have to put a shove on fitting in to the poly pipe and use a 12" nipple with a "T" or an ell on the top. That will hold you drop pipe from falling. Basically the same set up you have holding the pump on, just add a nipple and T on the top.


Travis
 
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Old 12-27-08, 09:39 AM
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Why the two hole? I don't know, it's what the builder used 6 years ago. One hole for the drop line and the other for the power cable is how he had it. Get this...then he had a PVC 90 with two hose clamps...yeah...how it held I don't know.

I bought a galvanized elbow 3/4 x 1 and a 1" galvanized barbed "shove in" insert for the drop line. That barbed insert with hose clamps....will it hold? Yes, I had figured the well seal would help in "clamping" the drop line. We had to lossen the bolts on it in order to pull the original out.

If you think or know the barbed insert with hose clamps will work, I'll go for it. Yes, the pump is tied off with a wire.

Thanks so much
 
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Old 12-27-08, 09:58 AM
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The clamps should hold. Use three clamps if there is enough room.
Alternate the clamps. One going one way one the other, and so on.
When you are doing this. Make sure you have the pump drop line held good.

Good luck, be careful, and take your time.


Travis
 
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Old 12-27-08, 10:14 AM
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Travis, firstly, I really appreciate all of your input. with the clamps, you mean one tightening around the hose in one direction and then reverse the other? I assume that's what you mean. Three...I should be able to.

I am having a hard time finding a way to hold this drop pipe good since it's so smooth. The weight is being held by a wire at the moment. I'm afraid of it slipping while I do this last part.

Do you need to see any pic's of what I have? Not sure if I can upload pic's in this forum.
 
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Old 12-27-08, 11:44 AM
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BTW...The pipe is a Silverline Siloflex 160 PSI.
 
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Old 12-27-08, 01:02 PM
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I have a good idea what your situation look like.
What you are doing is very hard and dangerous. The more help you can get the better. Leave about 5 to 10 feet out. That way you can have two or three people help hold it from falling, while you place the clamps on. Then let it down very slowly.
When you say you have a wire holding now. I hope you mean a large wire or cable. Stainless cable is the best thing to use. Cost allot, but it cost more to fish the pump back out.
 
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Old 12-27-08, 04:27 PM
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Exclamation

Travis...I got it the pump lowered the last 10 feet and secured at the seal. My problem now is wento test the pump with a temporary gate (ball) valve assembly at the well. Nothing....no water, no air coming out. I tested the voltage at the quick disconnect box and I am getting 230V. It shouldn't take too long to rise up and exit the ball valve?

Question..Page 3 of the pump manual says that the pump motor leads have a Red/Black & ground. Well, the leads on this pump were Black/Black/Green. No polarity? Now...I am very confused.

I looked at the old pump, same thing. Two (2) black and one (1/ green.

Any ideas?
 
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Old 12-27-08, 04:49 PM
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A valve between the pump and tank is never a good idea. Sence it's already there, just make sure it is all the way open, and stays that way!

There are only 3 wires coming from the pump? Red/Black/Green?
Just making sure there is not 4---> red/yellow/black/green
You made sure there were no nicks or cuts in the wire on the way back down the well? You sealed the splices at the pump good?
Do you have a clam on amp meter?
 
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Old 12-27-08, 05:40 PM
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I can take the new check valve out if needed. My plumber bud saw that there was not one installed and told me to get one. So i got a brass check.

Yes, only three wires. I included the link in priot post to the install manual, look at page 3. It shows (3) wires Red/Black/Green. BUT, coming out of the pump there are (2) black and (1) green...hence my confusion per the install manual. The pump is only a (2) wire model, same exact model that I took out. The old pump also has (2) black and (1) green. So...no polarity?

Yes, we examined the entire length of the wire while it was out on the ground...did not see any.

No, only a digital multi-meter. I thought maybe the pressure switch went bad (the points on one side look a little fried) so I checked at the quick disconnect box outside the house and I am reading 230 volts on the wire coming from power supply and 230 going out to pump.

Yes, sir. Sealed the splices very well, much better than original install was done and heat shrinked very carefully as well as liquid waterproof tape. Wiring is secured to pipe in 10' intervals and about 8" slack bundeled at the splice.

I am at a standstill....called Flotec tech support, they are closed until Jan. 5th.
 
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Old 12-27-08, 08:43 PM
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I know you have already done all these. But,

Can you check the voltage right befor the well?
Are you sure the pump is 220 and not 110?
I have seen 110volt motors in a 220 volt box. It will say on the motor it self. ( I know this is a little late to ask this question)

Made sure the points are good on the pressure switch?
Made sure the wires are making good conection in the breaker and switch?
Did the pump run at all after you installed it?

Did you dry run the pump on top of the ground befor you installed it? This can cause bad things to happen to the inside of the pumpend.


If I can think of anything else. I will add it to this list, in this post.
 
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Old 12-27-08, 10:52 PM
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I just came in from out there. I checked the voltage at:

1) The pressure switch = Reads 230VAC
2) The quick non-fused disconnect box on side of house = Reads 230VAC
3) I cut the splice at the well, checked the voltage through the splice = reads 230VAC

I also checked the leads going down to the pump for continuity, just to make sure there wasn't a short created.

The points on one side of the pressure switch look kinda of fried, about half way gone and black...but obviously still passing power all the way to the well. BUT, could this drop amps or something??

I have a temporary discharge set-up at the top of the well, so...no water yet. Which is telling me the pump is not working.

No, did not test pump before installing. The manual actually says that you can dry run it for no more than 30 sec. I did not do this do to the other end of the wire being 300' away.

Yes, 230V pump.



Take a look at the install manual if you like, it's linked in my prior post for you.

thanks Travis!
 
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Old 01-01-09, 02:38 PM
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You are dealing with a well pit I assume as you are using a well seal, not going to help you with current problem but really consider getting the well upgraded with casing above ground using pitless adapter, well pits are contaminating our groundwater resources. *gets down off soap box*
On to the problem....checked the curve on your pump, you have a 10 gpm pump on a 1 hp motor if the static level in your well falls below around 325' it will not deliver water, a 7 gpm 1 hp was the better pump for this well. Not knowing what your flow rate and static are makes this an assumption. You said you could see water in the well so it isnt a pump sizing issue for now. But at 20 foot static at 40 psi that pump could do 15 gpm, as a 6" well only has 1.4 gallons per foot, depening on the flow of the well the static will fall fast. So did the pump ever deliver water? If not and you have voltage and continuity a amp draw with clamp on would put this question to bed. As that is not available, an airlock is a possibility, seems unlikley at 350' with a visible static.. Bouncing the pump up and down to get the check valve to pop open to release the air and water to flow in is another method...hope that static is still high or get a young back. If the static is high enough 25-29 feet depending on were you live, using a hand operated diaphram pump you can pull open the check valve in the head of the pump allowing water into the pump.
Pulling a 350' by hand is tough I know, although with a high static, nah still tough.
Might be worth getting a clamp on amp meter to be sure.

Wire sizing? but i doubt it, same wire as before? same hp as before? if you put in a bigger hp that was used prior on the same wire the motor may not be getting enough voltage, but distance from house to well is needed to even consider this, as is wire size.

The debris you dropped....what and how much? No one whats to hear this...but the eye of the impeller in the first stage of the pump....if it gets plugged enough it cannot pass water on to the next impeller and the pump will not pump. Pump has to be removed torn apart and clear the impeller.

Good luck...
 

Last edited by waterwelldude; 01-01-09 at 03:06 PM.
 

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