I have a cabin in northern Vermont that pumps water from the lake in the summer. But I'd like to drink the water without boiling it and have running water during winter visits, so I'm considering drilling a well.

I understand I'd need to drain the pipes when I leave the cabin in winter, but will I be able to turn the water ON in winter or will the supply line be frozen solid? The cabin has a 2' - 3' crawl space.

 

The line from the well should not be frozen if it is buried below the frost line. Your biggest problem may be getting the water out of the supply line where it comes up under the house. The section above the frost line up to where you can drain the pipes will be vulnerable. Do you have power at the cabin? If so, wrapping heat tape around the supply pipe up to the point where you can drain the system could work.

 

Yes, I have power. Would I need to keep the heat tape plugged in all the time I'm not there to keep it from freezing? Sounds like a fire hazard.

 

Some heat tapes have built in thermostats that turn them on below about 40f. You can also buy thermostats that plug into an outlet and then you plug anything into it that you want to turn on below about 40f. I use one in my small greenhouse to turn on a light for heat. Works great.

 

The cabin is in northern Vermont. I don't expect it to get above 40 degrees until April. So the thermostat on the heat tape seems a bit useless. It would still be constantly on.

There has to be lots of folks with cabins up north just like mine. Can I hear from some of you who have a well set-up?

 

Before I had heat in my cottage I dug a pit under the house about 3 ft down [you may want to go 4 ft] and had the well and the pump in it, however I shut down for the winter and did not use it till spring. To be able to use it in the winter yould have to have a way to be able to start it up, and be able to drain it when you finish using it. I woud also recomend covering the pit when your not there. I don't know much room you have under your house, I know hard it is to work with not much head room. Consider maing a temporary or permanate trap door above your pit in an area that would not be inconvient to your normal activities when open.
Sid

 

Your best be is to put drain downs on your plumbing and a air connection where you need it and blow down the lines when you leave, if you have a tank or water heater empty that, put RV antifreeze in any traps.

This may take a little time to set up, but once you get it done freeze proofing you system should take very little time.

Your heat tape is a fire hazard plus what happens if the electric goes out?

 

The well you install should be a submersible kind for ease of start-up and shutdown. This will require a 4" well to be drilled.

My suggestion to you is to drill the well and plumb it to the cabin. Under the cabin dig out and small "room" or crawl space that you insulate very well and heat with an electric baseboard heater. In the well room, your water will come up from the ground and this will be the location for your pressure tank as well. In the winter you will still need to drain down the system but you will still have access to the water in this room. If you can, a good place for this well room would be under the bathroom. This could also make the bathroom operational when you are there in the winter. Again, you would still have to drain it down when you leave.

You still have the risk of freezing during a power failure but being under the cabin, well insulated and partially in the ground will help the parts from freezing and bursting the small amount of plumbing in the well room.

 

The underground "well room" is an interesting idea. It would keep the tank out of the way in the cabin as well. The logical place for my well supply line to come up from the ground would be at the corner of the house under the kitchen, and space inside the kitchen is a little tight.

The crawl space under that corner of the cabin is about 2 feet high. I was considering using concrete block or pouring concrete (maybe make it out of wood?) to create an insulated "chimney" from the ground up to the floor of the kitchen and have the well supply line come up through that. What do you think?

 

I am right now (well, not now because its winter ) doing something very similar to your plan on my in-laws cabin.

Under the kitchen would be another good option. My plan is to dig out under the cabin to make a "workable" room/crawlspace, aprox 4' tall. You could make the walls out of green treated and green plywood (Here in MN there have been houses built on Green foundations with no issues), block or use ICFs (Insulated Concrete Forms) and pour concrete. The floor I was going to put down pea rock just to keep the mud to a minimum. The main water line would come up into the insulated room and you would locate the pressure tank there. If you really wanted to go a step further you could put your water heater there too.

Your insulated chimney plan is along the same lines as my plan and I think it would work well. You could even cut a vent into the kitchen base cabinet to allow heat to there to keep the kitchen sink plumbing from freezing. Again, I would turn the well off when you are gone in case you do have a freeze up.

 

I like the two pronged, insulated pit and drain the lines approach. Good insulating will help considerable but the cold will eventually soak through if your cabin goes weeks or months with temperatures below freezing. Some source of heat either from the ground or a heater will be needed to prevent it from freezing eventually. The pit would get you down to warmer ground temps and allow you to drain most everything.

I don't suppose the codes will allow it, but my brother-in-law in central Alaska had his well inside the house. The lowest floor was half buried in the ground and the well and all it's plumbing was within the heated portion of the house for protection and easy access. Other houses up there had their wells under part of the house with the pit idea you've been discussing and many had a trap door in the floor of the living space to access the room without having to go outside.

 

Thanks Tolyn and Pilot, I think you are on to something here. I especially like the idea of being able to drain the water line all the way down to the frost line. Ultimately I'd rather not heat this space at all while I'm gone in the winter. But I'd like to be able to start it up once or twice in the winter to use it for ski vacations. I envision shovelling my way into the cabin, and heating up the space before turning the water on - then draining it all again before I leave. So that brings up a few questions about the plumbing design... please forgive my ignorance.

How would I drain something at the bottom of a pit? Where would the drained water go? Do I need to crawl to the bottom of this pit every time I turn off/on the water?

Ideally I'd like to be able to turn on/off the water from inside without having to shovel snow away from a buffalo box valve outside. I don't know if that's realistic.

Some more info... My lot is sloped going down to the lake. Because of the location of my existing leachfield, the only suitable location for a drilled well is uphill from the cabin. Will gravity be an issue or an advantage in the plumbing design?

 

You could dig the pit deeper than it needs to be and fill the bottom with crushed stone. The stone would keep the mud down and give the water a place to drain. There are remote controlled valves controlled either electrically or by air but I would not go to that extent. I'd just make the pit somewhat clean and accessible so you don't mind going in there. Install a light and if you need a ladder to get down into it, install one permanently so you just go right down and are not screwing around with getting a ladder from the storage shed every time.

If you have a submersible pump, the type that goes down inside the well you should not have to do anything out at the wellhead. Just turn off the power to the pump from inside the cabin or wherever your circuit panel is located.

My father-in-law had a place in Park City, UT. When they arrive at the airport in Salt Lake they would call the house. The house had a control system (fancy alarm system) and enter a code. The controller would turn up the heat in the house, turn up the hot water heater temp and turn on the driveway heater (yes, I know. A bit extravagant). Controls like that are rather inexpensive these days. You could put one in at your cabin and call before you leave and have it tied into the thermostat turn on the heat before you leave home. That way the cabin would be warm and ready for you to turn on the water when you arrive.

 

Yeah, that might be a bit extravagant for my tastes. I don't have phone service or television at the cabin and I like it that way. Getting a cell signal is a challenge too so I have an excuse for not calling the office. "Can you hear me now?" Nope.

I anticipate a submersible pump in the drilled well. So if I just turn off the power to the well at the breaker I won't need to close any valves? Will the supply line drain down to the cabin?

 

You will still have to open some valves to drain the pipes and pressure tank but at least you won't have to worry about the pump freezing or re-priming it.

 

When you shut the electric to the pump you have to drain the system, from the pressure tank and hot water heater. Don't forget to add antifreeze in the toliet and drains. Drain trap water freezes and can burst drain pipes. When you place your well, try to get it at least 50 feet from the septic tank and 100 feet from the drain field. This will help whenever you try to sell it, because HUD and now most banks require these distances at a minimum before the will finance it.

Just something to keep in mind.

 

When winterizing, cut off the power to the submersible pump and drain everything above ground. When using it again turn off all drain valves and faucets , then turn on the power to the pump and everything is off and running.