Is drilling a new well the only option?
#1
04-25-12, 05:48 PM
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Is drilling a new well the only option?
My son has a problem with his water well. Two weeks ago he had no water pressure. The local well man replaced the 30 year old pump and lowered his pump 84 feet lower in the well. When the well pressure got up to 60 pounds, the well folks left. After a couple of hours, the well again had no pressure. The well man lowered the pump another 105 feet. Again after a short time no water pressure. After a long wait, the pressure got up to about 20 pounds: however, it has not gotten past zero since. If he leaves the well off overnight and turn it on in the morning, he can get some water out of the hydrant next to the well head but this doesn’t last long. The well man says he doesn’t know what the problem is but can drill a new well for about $20,000.
The original well completion report says completed Feb, 27, 1980, 6 5/8 steel casing 0-80 ft, 4 1/2 PVC casing 4-424 ft, 4 1/2 perforated PVC casing 424-484 ft, 4 1/2 PVC casing 484-504 ft, 4 1/2 perforated PVC casing 504-624 ft, static water level 223 ft, pump set at 334 ft, bail 12 1/2 gpm for 4 hours at 334 ft.
A hole was repaired in the pipe on 7/12/99 (replaced galvanized pipe in water with 168 feet of threaded schedule 80 PVC pipe). The write-up said the static water level was 273 ft and the pump was set at 417 ft. It also said that the pump was a 2 hp red jacket with 8/3 wire.
Any suggestions?
The original well completion report says completed Feb, 27, 1980, 6 5/8 steel casing 0-80 ft, 4 1/2 PVC casing 4-424 ft, 4 1/2 perforated PVC casing 424-484 ft, 4 1/2 PVC casing 484-504 ft, 4 1/2 perforated PVC casing 504-624 ft, static water level 223 ft, pump set at 334 ft, bail 12 1/2 gpm for 4 hours at 334 ft.
A hole was repaired in the pipe on 7/12/99 (replaced galvanized pipe in water with 168 feet of threaded schedule 80 PVC pipe). The write-up said the static water level was 273 ft and the pump was set at 417 ft. It also said that the pump was a 2 hp red jacket with 8/3 wire.
Any suggestions?
#2
04-25-12, 06:04 PM
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The pros will post shortly, but from what you describe the pump needs to be lowered deeper in the well I would assume
Are you saying that the well guy lowered the pump 84 ft plus 105 ft below the static water level? That is the water level that was determined in 1999.
Whats the current static water level?
What make and model pump did he install?
He may be just trying to get 20K out of you. A well guy rarely does not know whats wrong with a well. So that statement is somewhat baffling.
Mike NJ
Are you saying that the well guy lowered the pump 84 ft plus 105 ft below the static water level? That is the water level that was determined in 1999.
Whats the current static water level?
What make and model pump did he install?
He may be just trying to get 20K out of you. A well guy rarely does not know whats wrong with a well. So that statement is somewhat baffling.
Mike NJ
Last edited by lawrosa; 04-25-12 at 08:10 PM.
#3
04-25-12, 07:30 PM
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Reply to Mike NJ
In 1980 the well was drilled to 624 feet, the pump was set at 334 feet, and the static water level was at 223 feet.
In 1999 the bottom 84 feet of galvanized well pipe was replaced with 168 feet of threaded schedule 80 well pipe lowering the pump to 417 feet. The static water level at that time was 273 feet.
Two weeks ago the new well guy said he replaced the old pump with a new franklin pump ith the same horsepower (2 hp). He also said he lowered the pump 84 feet. that should have put the pump at 501 feet. A couple days later he lowered the pump another 105 feet. That should have put the pump at 606 feet. that should have put the pump 16 feet from the bottom of the well. The guy did not give my son any of the pump documentation and he kept the old pump. The bill only included a total price with no itemization. I have no doubt he put in a new pump since my son's neighbor said he watched the guy pull a new pump with tags attached out of a box. I do not know what the current static water level is but I wonder if a 624 foot deep well could go dry that fast. that dropping the pump 189 feet wouldn't solve the problem if it was water level.
In 1999 the bottom 84 feet of galvanized well pipe was replaced with 168 feet of threaded schedule 80 well pipe lowering the pump to 417 feet. The static water level at that time was 273 feet.
Two weeks ago the new well guy said he replaced the old pump with a new franklin pump ith the same horsepower (2 hp). He also said he lowered the pump 84 feet. that should have put the pump at 501 feet. A couple days later he lowered the pump another 105 feet. That should have put the pump at 606 feet. that should have put the pump 16 feet from the bottom of the well. The guy did not give my son any of the pump documentation and he kept the old pump. The bill only included a total price with no itemization. I have no doubt he put in a new pump since my son's neighbor said he watched the guy pull a new pump with tags attached out of a box. I do not know what the current static water level is but I wonder if a 624 foot deep well could go dry that fast. that dropping the pump 189 feet wouldn't solve the problem if it was water level.
#4
04-25-12, 08:09 PM
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Hi and Welcome
The well may very well be going dry.
OR minerals in the water may have stopped up the screens.
Is your water very hard or have lots of iron?
You may not need a new well, but to have your well cleaned.
It does sound like it is running out of water, but drilling a new one may not be the correct move.(just yet) Minerals in water wells can create problems that do seem to point toward a new well, when in reality a new well is NOT needed.
I would talk to another well guy that business in your area for at least ten years or more.
Talk to you neighbors and see if thier wells are dropping or having similar problems.
The well may very well be going dry.
OR minerals in the water may have stopped up the screens.
Is your water very hard or have lots of iron?
You may not need a new well, but to have your well cleaned.
It does sound like it is running out of water, but drilling a new one may not be the correct move.(just yet) Minerals in water wells can create problems that do seem to point toward a new well, when in reality a new well is NOT needed.
I would talk to another well guy that business in your area for at least ten years or more.
Talk to you neighbors and see if thier wells are dropping or having similar problems.
#5
05-03-12, 04:47 PM
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My son said the guy who said he would drill a new well for $20,000 told him at the time that the current static water level (when he added the 84 foot of pipe) was 320 ft. My son also said that his water is hard and has iron. From my observation, it also smells of sulphur. He has tried to contact another well person and is waiting for him to call back.
#6
05-04-12, 04:27 AM
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Summary of well history and problem with some additional information
1980 -- Well is dug 624 feet deep. Static water level is 223 feet. Pump is at 334 feet. 111 feet of water above pump.
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1999 -- Leak in pipe at water level is fixed. Static water level is 273 feet. Pump is at 417 feet. 144 feet of water above pump.
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2012 -- No water pressure. Well man says static water level is at 320 feet. Pump is lowered to 501 feet. 181 feet of water above pump. Well man says old pump works but recommends it be replaced since it is probably 32 years old. Old pump is replaced.
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Two hours later -- Low water pressure. Filter is full of sand. Gage will never go above 20 pounds.
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Two days later -- Pump is lowered to 606 feet.
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One hour later -- Low water pressure. Gage will not go above 20 pounds. Well man says he is not sure what is wrong. Well man says he will drill a new well for $20,000 and will reduce this price by the $3,000 spent so far.
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Two days later -- Low water pressure. Gage never goes above zero. Slow water flow on lower floor of house. No water flow on upper floor of house. Slow water flow at outside spigots.
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One hour later -- When pump was turned on, low pressure water flow from spigot next to well-head for about a minute, gage pressure never goes above zero, no water in house or at other outside spigots.
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Current situation -- No water flow anywhere. Voltage at fused disconnect for well is about 248 volts when pump is turned off. Voltage drops to about 245 volts when pump is turned on and stays at that level.
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1999 -- Leak in pipe at water level is fixed. Static water level is 273 feet. Pump is at 417 feet. 144 feet of water above pump.
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2012 -- No water pressure. Well man says static water level is at 320 feet. Pump is lowered to 501 feet. 181 feet of water above pump. Well man says old pump works but recommends it be replaced since it is probably 32 years old. Old pump is replaced.
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Two hours later -- Low water pressure. Filter is full of sand. Gage will never go above 20 pounds.
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Two days later -- Pump is lowered to 606 feet.
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One hour later -- Low water pressure. Gage will not go above 20 pounds. Well man says he is not sure what is wrong. Well man says he will drill a new well for $20,000 and will reduce this price by the $3,000 spent so far.
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Two days later -- Low water pressure. Gage never goes above zero. Slow water flow on lower floor of house. No water flow on upper floor of house. Slow water flow at outside spigots.
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One hour later -- When pump was turned on, low pressure water flow from spigot next to well-head for about a minute, gage pressure never goes above zero, no water in house or at other outside spigots.
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Current situation -- No water flow anywhere. Voltage at fused disconnect for well is about 248 volts when pump is turned off. Voltage drops to about 245 volts when pump is turned on and stays at that level.
#8
05-04-12, 06:17 PM
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He may have lowered the pump below its pumping level. X-amount of HP will only lift water so high.
The pump may be trying to lift more water than it is capable of. You may have to go to a larger HP pump.
The pump may be trying to lift more water than it is capable of. You may have to go to a larger HP pump.
#9
06-18-12, 03:38 AM
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Had the driller pull the pump
The driller pulled the pump. The pump is a Franklin 2 hp 10 gpm. 29 21ft sticks including the one with the pitless adapter. That should set the pump at about 619 ft. Put the pump in a barrell with the water directed back in the barrell. Let it pump run for a few minutes. Seemed to work OK. The driller said that his guys lowered their depth tester into the well to over 500 feet and found no water. We put two plumb bobs and a float on the end of a 1000 ft line and lowered it into the well. It floated at 380 feet. Pulled it out and the float and plumb bobs were wet. We repeated this process three times. Removed the float and lowered the plumb bobs to the bottom of the well. Hit bottom at 644 feet. Pullet it out and the last 264 feet of the line was wet. We think the well digger is wrong and the well is not dry. Perhaps the wire he stuck in the well got hung up and didn't go all the way down to the water. Perhaps his apparatus was faulty. The elevation of the property is about 6000 ft. Don't know if this means anything or not. We like your suggestion that the existing pump just doesn't have the power to push the water 619 feet. If so, should we replace the existing 2 hp 10 gpm pump with a 3 hp 10 gpm pump or replace the existing 2 hp 10 gpm pump with a 2 hp 5 gpm pump?
#10
06-19-12, 04:13 AM
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Second Opinion
I noticed that the top of the last section of pipe was black. Made my hands black when I checked it out. I suspect coal. A different driller will check the depth of the well and the depth of the water Wednesday (tomorrow). If the water level in the well is at 380 ft, what if we leave the hp at 2 and drop the gpm of the pump from 10 to 5? The existing wire down the hole is 8 awg. I am also proposing that we leave off one pipe section setting the pump at 598 ft which would be 28 ft above the end of the perforated casing (according to the original drilling report). That would give us 219 ft of water above the pump. What do you think?
#11
06-19-12, 07:54 AM
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Post the exact model of the pump so we can find the pump curve.
That pump I believe if 10gpm, will only pump 10 gpm @ 480 ft. The deeper you go the less gpm it will pump.
600 ft 7 gpm
700 ft 3 gpm
So with that said, I am not learned in submersible pumps but that pump should be OK.
Something else may be amiss.
Mike NJ
That pump I believe if 10gpm, will only pump 10 gpm @ 480 ft. The deeper you go the less gpm it will pump.
600 ft 7 gpm
700 ft 3 gpm
So with that said, I am not learned in submersible pumps but that pump should be OK.
Something else may be amiss.
Mike NJ
#12
06-20-12, 06:45 PM
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Success
The second well man came today. He sounded the well and said the water level was at 381 feet. We measured it at 380 feet with our plumb bob/float/line method. He then used this long pipe about 4 inches in diameter which he lowered to the bottom of the well, brought out of the well, and set the end on the ground which caused it to dump it's contents. He did this a few times. He then replaced the 10 gpm pump with a 5 gpm pump. He did not replace the 2 hp motor. The well had 21 21 foot galvanized pipes and 8 20 foot pvc pipes. That totaled 601 feet that the pump was set below the pitless adaptor. The well report said the casing went down to 624 feet. He left off one of the galvanized pipes which set the pump at 580 feet below the pitless adaptor. He tested the current at the pump control box and said all should be good. We now have lots of water. What was the first well guy thinking, or was he? Thanks for the help.
