Not getting any volume of water on a shallow well?
#1
06-05-12, 04:45 PM
Not getting any volume of water on a shallow well?
I have a deep well at 110ft and the water stinks. All my neighbors have shallow wells and the water is the greatest. I decided to drive a shallow well for some good water. At 21ft I had 6ft of water with a 36in Campbell 1 1/4in well point, gauze size 60 chamfered haft-moon slots. At the top I installed a brass check valve and directly to a 3/4 hp shallow well jet pump. I used 1 1/4in galvanized pipe for everything. To check my volume of water I hooked up a garden hose and got 1 gal per min?? Went back and checked all connections, still only 1 gal per min? Check my depth of water still at 6 ft. Thought the point was plugged so I tried to turn the pipe. I was able to get 1 turn clockwise to loosen it up. Then I got 2 1/2 gal per min, getting better.
Hooked up a hose from my deep well to the shallow well pipe and flushed the point out. It took the water real fast! Then I took an air hose and then blew it out also. Checked water level was at about 6 ft. An hr later I was going to hook up to the pump and noticed the water was running out of the top of the well?? Later when it stopped running out I hooked up the pump and then I got 1 gal per min again??
Any thoughts of what is going on or what I should try next?? Thanks Geno
Hooked up a hose from my deep well to the shallow well pipe and flushed the point out. It took the water real fast! Then I took an air hose and then blew it out also. Checked water level was at about 6 ft. An hr later I was going to hook up to the pump and noticed the water was running out of the top of the well?? Later when it stopped running out I hooked up the pump and then I got 1 gal per min again??
Any thoughts of what is going on or what I should try next?? Thanks Geno
#2
06-06-12, 09:45 AM
Sounds like the holes are jamming up with sand.
All you can do is what you are doing . . . keep developing the well.
You have done many things, but not for long enough, I think. I like air slugs and I like starting and stopping the air so that the water flows back and forth through the screen. It's not as efficient, as a surge block, but it works.
Check out this web page:
Section 10: Well Development
How long? Some wells develop in hours. Some take weeks and some never develop properly.
All you can do is what you are doing . . . keep developing the well.
You have done many things, but not for long enough, I think. I like air slugs and I like starting and stopping the air so that the water flows back and forth through the screen. It's not as efficient, as a surge block, but it works.
Check out this web page:
Section 10: Well Development
How long? Some wells develop in hours. Some take weeks and some never develop properly.
#3
06-06-12, 11:10 AM
Thank you Vey for the great info and web page! I though I might have caused problems by running water and air in the well. I will continually work this well with the info you have given me. I will stay in touch and let you know how I am doing!
#4
06-06-12, 02:32 PM
Let me describe air slugs. That's when you get the volume of air just right so that big bubbles are made. Those big bubbles come up and sploosh up to 15 feet in the air. With the water also comes sand.
The reason that air slugs are good is because they bring up sand that has worked it's way through the screen and fallen to the bottom. But it doesn't do the back and forth business very well.
With the water also comes sand. Here is a quote on the page I sent you that deserves emphasis. Movement in only one direction, as when pumping from the well, does not produce the proper development effect - sand grains can "bridge" voids around the screen. Agitation from pumping during normal pump use may cause these bridges to break down over time and sand to be pumped.
That's a tough one to get your head around, but what they are really saying is that overpumping (used by many people) is not the best way.
The reason that air slugs are good is because they bring up sand that has worked it's way through the screen and fallen to the bottom. But it doesn't do the back and forth business very well.
With the water also comes sand. Here is a quote on the page I sent you that deserves emphasis. Movement in only one direction, as when pumping from the well, does not produce the proper development effect - sand grains can "bridge" voids around the screen. Agitation from pumping during normal pump use may cause these bridges to break down over time and sand to be pumped.
That's a tough one to get your head around, but what they are really saying is that overpumping (used by many people) is not the best way.
#5
06-27-12, 09:19 AM
I finally found something!
A few things I didn't bring up before, I'm working inside my home in a crawl space 3ft high through an 18in by 22in hatch, that's where I pounded my well point. The home is 90ft from a lake that has springs in it.
So it was a little hard to clean the well point by gushing up water with air. The water would keep coming back to 3in of the top of the well after working on it.
The more I worked on it the worse it got. Went from 2.5gal per min to.5gal per min.
I put a tee on the top of the well pipe, one side a water hose going down 21ft to the bottom of the well, the other side a return hose to let water go outside. Turned it on and dirt and then sand came running out.
I thought for sure it would do it. But it went back to my max of 2.5gel per min.
Not good enough, I jacked the well up and out.
The well point looks like it has cement on the stainless slots plugging a lot of the well point?
Im scraping the slots and will check it for flow of water when I get done but what caused this to happen?
Should I then put it back in the same hole?
Any sugestions would be great
A few things I didn't bring up before, I'm working inside my home in a crawl space 3ft high through an 18in by 22in hatch, that's where I pounded my well point. The home is 90ft from a lake that has springs in it.
So it was a little hard to clean the well point by gushing up water with air. The water would keep coming back to 3in of the top of the well after working on it.
The more I worked on it the worse it got. Went from 2.5gal per min to.5gal per min.
I put a tee on the top of the well pipe, one side a water hose going down 21ft to the bottom of the well, the other side a return hose to let water go outside. Turned it on and dirt and then sand came running out.
I thought for sure it would do it. But it went back to my max of 2.5gel per min.
Not good enough, I jacked the well up and out.
The well point looks like it has cement on the stainless slots plugging a lot of the well point?
Im scraping the slots and will check it for flow of water when I get done but what caused this to happen?
Should I then put it back in the same hole?
Any sugestions would be great
#6
06-27-12, 06:16 PM
"Im scraping the slots and will check it for flow of water when I get done but what caused this to happen?"
Sounds like clay. Usually clay is found in layers. You can try a bit higher, or you can go deeper, but water doesn't go through clay, only sand a gravel, so you need to get the point off the dime. Sometimes clay layers can be a few inches thick, or many feet thick.
Sorry that I can't be of more help, but if it were me, I would move the point a foot up or down and see what happens there. If no good, then move it another foot.
Sounds like clay. Usually clay is found in layers. You can try a bit higher, or you can go deeper, but water doesn't go through clay, only sand a gravel, so you need to get the point off the dime. Sometimes clay layers can be a few inches thick, or many feet thick.
Sorry that I can't be of more help, but if it were me, I would move the point a foot up or down and see what happens there. If no good, then move it another foot.
#7
06-28-12, 09:06 PM
In the process of removing the point I tried to pump water and got nothing at 11in higher-23in-higher and 32ins higher. After that I pulled it. My neighbor reminded me what a hard time we had pounding the well in the last foot. Once I get this point clean I will try to go deeper and on the way down I will keep checking to see if I can get some solid water.
Update
Couldn't get it clean enough to use again. Had a well guy look at it and said it looked 20 yrs old. Bought a new one and will try again in a week or so.
Thanks again Vey, will let you know how I come out.
Update
Couldn't get it clean enough to use again. Had a well guy look at it and said it looked 20 yrs old. Bought a new one and will try again in a week or so.
Thanks again Vey, will let you know how I come out.
#8
06-29-12, 08:20 PM
"and got nothing at 11in higher-23in-higher and 32ins higher."
That equals a layer of clay. As I said, layers of clay can't move water. That can be a couple of inches thick (what we call around here hard pan) or they can be literally hundreds of feet thick. It all depends on the topography.
Wish I could be more encouraging.
That equals a layer of clay. As I said, layers of clay can't move water. That can be a couple of inches thick (what we call around here hard pan) or they can be literally hundreds of feet thick. It all depends on the topography.
Wish I could be more encouraging.
#9
08-27-12, 09:55 PM
Got some free time so back to the well.
My neighbors well is at 6ft higher then my well in my crawl space. He is at 26ft deep and hitting water at 6ft down the well. My well was at 21ft and hitting water at 4in into the well. 21ft plus 6ft would put me at 27ft and a ft in clay. So I though I would go for 18ft (15ft of pipe and 3ft point) which would be a good place to check output at.
I soaped up the point and started with my 80pound pipe slide sludge. Ever inch going down I knew I would pay for it the next day. AT 13ft it was time for the pitcher pump to see if I can pump any water. NO water, 12am went to bed!
The next day I hooked up the 3/4 hp pump to see if I could some water. To my suprise 6gal per minute of the cleanest, best tasting water ever! Had it checked it is excelent water. Its been a month now and pumping 8gal per minute.
Thanks for all your help, I hope this helps someone.
Geno MN_FL
My neighbors well is at 6ft higher then my well in my crawl space. He is at 26ft deep and hitting water at 6ft down the well. My well was at 21ft and hitting water at 4in into the well. 21ft plus 6ft would put me at 27ft and a ft in clay. So I though I would go for 18ft (15ft of pipe and 3ft point) which would be a good place to check output at.
I soaped up the point and started with my 80pound pipe slide sludge. Ever inch going down I knew I would pay for it the next day. AT 13ft it was time for the pitcher pump to see if I can pump any water. NO water, 12am went to bed!
The next day I hooked up the 3/4 hp pump to see if I could some water. To my suprise 6gal per minute of the cleanest, best tasting water ever! Had it checked it is excelent water. Its been a month now and pumping 8gal per minute.
Thanks for all your help, I hope this helps someone.
Geno MN_FL
#10
08-28-12, 06:09 AM
Get the water tested. Check with your local health department as to where. It may look and smell clean, but shallow wells are famous for bacteria.
In Florida the health department used to do testing for private wells at nominal cost, but now it's all private companies. They say it should cost $20-30. Whatever you do, don't fall for one of those "free" tests that don't test for health, but for trying to sell you a water softener.
In Florida the health department used to do testing for private wells at nominal cost, but now it's all private companies. They say it should cost $20-30. Whatever you do, don't fall for one of those "free" tests that don't test for health, but for trying to sell you a water softener.
#11
10-11-12, 08:46 AM
Again Vey thanks for your help. Got it tested and Coliform (bacteria) was absent/zero. Had Nitrate checked also. Minnesota MCL ( maximum contaminant level allowed by the safe drinking water act is 10. mg) mine is 1.6 mg so that is good also or Pass.
Packing up and heading south again its getting cold here in MN. Two days and 1800 hundred miles and we will to the west of you.
Packing up and heading south again its getting cold here in MN. Two days and 1800 hundred miles and we will to the west of you.
