Hole in well casing
#1
12-01-12, 05:35 PM
Hole in well casing
I have a 120' well here in south Florida used for irrigation. Goulds centrifugal pump must be primed with a hose to get it pumping. Once shut off the pump loses prime almost immediately. Check valve is new and pump recently rebuilt.
Pulled cap off top of well and there is no drop pipe, just the 2" id well casing.
Water level is within 6' of surface. Put a hose into well to see if water level would rise. After 10 minutes, pulled the hose. Water level did not rise much but a lot of bubbling in pipe.
Dug around the pipe down to about 4-5' and the upper part of the pipe is clean but the lowest section is showing some rust. Don't see any perforations.
So would this loss of prime be due to a hole in the pipe? What would be the next step?
Thanks
Pulled cap off top of well and there is no drop pipe, just the 2" id well casing.
Water level is within 6' of surface. Put a hose into well to see if water level would rise. After 10 minutes, pulled the hose. Water level did not rise much but a lot of bubbling in pipe.
Dug around the pipe down to about 4-5' and the upper part of the pipe is clean but the lowest section is showing some rust. Don't see any perforations.
So would this loss of prime be due to a hole in the pipe? What would be the next step?
Thanks
#2
12-01-12, 06:02 PM
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"Pulled cap off top of well and there is no drop pipe, just the 2" id well casing"
How is the pump connected if there is no drop pipe?
A check valve at the pump in some situations won't work.
Usually a foot valve is at the bottom of the drop pipe....but you say there isn't one.
Maybe a picture or two if possible.
.
"Pulled cap off top of well and there is no drop pipe, just the 2" id well casing"
How is the pump connected if there is no drop pipe?
A check valve at the pump in some situations won't work.
Usually a foot valve is at the bottom of the drop pipe....but you say there isn't one.
Maybe a picture or two if possible.
.
#3
12-01-12, 06:18 PM
Well pipe has a fitting on top with a 1 & 1/2" threaded opening in the side. Pipe from pump goes to this fitting. Well casing is acting as drive pipe, and I don't think it is legal to do this anymore. The well is probably 30 years old. I believe there is a foot valve at the bottom of the 2" casing. Could be it's bad.
Am told I could put 30' of 1 & 1/4" PVC pipe with a foot valve at the bottom into the existing 2" casing and plumb it to the pump with no check valve. Problem is I have no idea what fittings would be used to plumb this. Maybe a 2" well seal with a single 1 & 1/4" opening in it. But what do I know.
Am told I could put 30' of 1 & 1/4" PVC pipe with a foot valve at the bottom into the existing 2" casing and plumb it to the pump with no check valve. Problem is I have no idea what fittings would be used to plumb this. Maybe a 2" well seal with a single 1 & 1/4" opening in it. But what do I know.
Last edited by xenon; 12-01-12 at 06:41 PM.
#4
12-01-12, 06:51 PM
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Ideally you want to come out the side of the casing to keep the integrity of the top seal.
At what height is the side fitting?....is it underground?
I'm asking because you say the water level is 6' underground.
But it appears as if it's near the top.....which means it would be above the water?
.
Ideally you want to come out the side of the casing to keep the integrity of the top seal.
At what height is the side fitting?....is it underground?
I'm asking because you say the water level is 6' underground.
But it appears as if it's near the top.....which means it would be above the water?
.
#5
12-01-12, 07:07 PM
Yup, the fitting at the top of the pipe is maybe 18" above ground. No danger of freeze where I am so no pitless adapter. And If I dig a fence post hole I hit water.
I just don't know what fittings would seal the top of the well, and allow the 1 & 1/4" PVC drop pipe to be connected up horizontally to the pump. Can't hardly visualize it.
I just don't know what fittings would seal the top of the well, and allow the 1 & 1/4" PVC drop pipe to be connected up horizontally to the pump. Can't hardly visualize it.
#6
12-01-12, 08:27 PM
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It appears there is a pitless adapter for a 2" casing.
2" Concentric Pipe Pitless Adapters
It would be fairly easy to install in your situation being above grade.
Then you could go deep with PVC or even flexible poly......foot valve at the bottom.
I guess you could also drill or machine a 1-5/16" hole into the center of a 2" cap.
The I.D. of the threaded cap will actually be larger than 2" so there is room.
Then weld a 1" x 6" long threaded nipple inserted half way into the cap.
Or you could drill a bigger hole and weld a coupling on top.
Either way you end up with a threaded fitting inside and outside integrated into a sealed cap.
.
It appears there is a pitless adapter for a 2" casing.
2" Concentric Pipe Pitless Adapters
It would be fairly easy to install in your situation being above grade.
Then you could go deep with PVC or even flexible poly......foot valve at the bottom.
I guess you could also drill or machine a 1-5/16" hole into the center of a 2" cap.
The I.D. of the threaded cap will actually be larger than 2" so there is room.
Then weld a 1" x 6" long threaded nipple inserted half way into the cap.
Or you could drill a bigger hole and weld a coupling on top.
Either way you end up with a threaded fitting inside and outside integrated into a sealed cap.
.
#8
12-03-12, 08:03 AM
its actually illegal for a licensed driller to install a pitless adapter in FL. all wells are to be no less than 12" above grade. now what a homeowner does after they leave is their prerogative... but you'd be nuts to install one here, they are not needed.
the hole in the cap is the best bet. i've done it many times. this is FL so no welding needed... do everything with pvc.
btw, using any more than 30' of drop pipe is a waste of money, that pump cant pull water deeper than 25'. no need to overcomplicate this.
the hole in the cap is the best bet. i've done it many times. this is FL so no welding needed... do everything with pvc.
btw, using any more than 30' of drop pipe is a waste of money, that pump cant pull water deeper than 25'. no need to overcomplicate this.
#11
12-03-12, 02:41 PM
I used to live in central fla with a well. In that area the best water was around 100' although you could find water with a post hole digger. The well driller punches the casing down deep enough to get to the good water [a 6' well wouldn't be very sanitary] as mentioned above, the water pressure at the bottom of the casing will force the water up however far it's able.
#13
12-03-12, 09:30 PM
wells construction varies all over, so i can really only speak for my area.
with that said, a well similar to the one in this thread would be a "rock well" here. so with a 100' well, you might hit that rock at around 80'. best i can describe it is that the rock looks somewhat like a sponge, it is porous and holds water. so your casing would be set to 80' on that rock, then you drill through it to get the water out. so everything from bottom of casing up is sealed, and only the water in the open hole drilled in the rock from 80 to 100' should be entering the well casing.
with that said, a well similar to the one in this thread would be a "rock well" here. so with a 100' well, you might hit that rock at around 80'. best i can describe it is that the rock looks somewhat like a sponge, it is porous and holds water. so your casing would be set to 80' on that rock, then you drill through it to get the water out. so everything from bottom of casing up is sealed, and only the water in the open hole drilled in the rock from 80 to 100' should be entering the well casing.
#14
12-04-12, 04:28 AM
If the water is "bad" at 20' and great at 100', won't it intermix in the casing?
#15
12-04-12, 05:19 PM
Went to get the PVC at one of the old time supply houses around here.
Counterman said it's a common problem to have corrosion holes in the well pipe right at water level. Said I would need a K-packer on the drop pipe in order for it to work; otherwise the pump would be sucking air through the hole in the pipe. The one he showed me looked like a threaded steel pipe nipple with two rubber lips on it. Also said that once I put it down the casing odds are I would not be able to pull it up again.
Anyway I got the PVC and the foot valve but now am wondering If I should have bought the K-Packer too.
Counterman said it's a common problem to have corrosion holes in the well pipe right at water level. Said I would need a K-packer on the drop pipe in order for it to work; otherwise the pump would be sucking air through the hole in the pipe. The one he showed me looked like a threaded steel pipe nipple with two rubber lips on it. Also said that once I put it down the casing odds are I would not be able to pull it up again.
Anyway I got the PVC and the foot valve but now am wondering If I should have bought the K-Packer too.
Last edited by xenon; 12-04-12 at 06:07 PM.
#16
12-04-12, 09:06 PM
pump won't get air when using the drop pipe. He's not wrong about blocking the holes out, but being as its irrigation, I wouldn't worry with the kpacker until you start pumping sand or trash thats getting in the well from the hole/holes. when that happens, then u can pull the drop pipe and consider a sleeve with kpacker to block all the holes out. might not have to worry about it for some time.
#17
12-05-12, 05:40 AM
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I agree.....I would put off the K-packer install until there is no other option.
My fear would be a simple foot valve failure.....with no ability to repair it.
What's the model number of the pump?.....how many horsepower?
As mentioned earlier......your drop pipe length shouldn't exceed the maximum head.
Also....adding the drop pipe means the well casing is no longer acting as a suction pipe.
Therefore.....you need to add a vent to allow the free-flow of air in & out of the casing.
A simple 1/2" street elbow threaded into the side will suffice.....just below the cap.
It should be facing down......maybe add a screen to keep any critters out.
.
I agree.....I would put off the K-packer install until there is no other option.
My fear would be a simple foot valve failure.....with no ability to repair it.
What's the model number of the pump?.....how many horsepower?
As mentioned earlier......your drop pipe length shouldn't exceed the maximum head.
Also....adding the drop pipe means the well casing is no longer acting as a suction pipe.
Therefore.....you need to add a vent to allow the free-flow of air in & out of the casing.
A simple 1/2" street elbow threaded into the side will suffice.....just below the cap.
It should be facing down......maybe add a screen to keep any critters out.
.
#18
12-05-12, 12:44 PM
Thousands of 2" wells using drop pipes with no vent here.. u dont need it.
if u were using a kpacker you would remove the foot valve and use an inline check valve up top.. so there is nothing in the well that could fail.
if u were using a kpacker you would remove the foot valve and use an inline check valve up top.. so there is nothing in the well that could fail.
