I'm currently having an issue with my Well-X-Trol pressure tank going bad (after less than a gallon of water use, the well pump kicks on for just a brief time). I was in my crawl space checking it out and noticed some differences between the current setup and what I've seen online and as far as the piping.

We have a convertible jet pump well pump that is under the crawl space near the pressure tank. The copper pipe goes from the pump horizontal to a T. On one side of the T there is a single down pipe going to the pressure tank. There it fits into the pressure tank T, whose other end is capped off with a plug. (I've tried to attach photo, but don't think it's working. I will update thread when I can get it working).

So, the water will flow in both directions to the pressure tank. As such there is no check valve in the line. From all that I have seen, there should be a check valve as the water goes into one side of the pressure tank T and then leaves the other end of the pressure tank T to the house water piping.

Should I update this layout to include a check valve? Or is it no big deal and should I just leave it alone. If I just leave it all alone, this looks to be a rather quick job to replace the tank. If I modify it to incorporate a check valve, I'll have a few hours of work on my hands with re-routing lines, soldering, purchasing a bunch of additional fittings, etc. But I would like it done correctly, and so that I won't experience any issues due to a missing check valve.

What do you think?

 

Sounds like you could have a bad bladder and/or low air pressure in the top of the tank. If it was bleed back from a bad foot valve at the pump, your pump would run for a longer period of time. If there is too little air in the top of the tank to compress then the pressure quickly drops with little water usage and rises just as fast, cycling the pump quickly on and off.

Here's a link to troubleshoot that possibility from the company that makes the well-x-trol products

Amtrol- Troubleshooting

 

Thanks, I had found that website and their troubleshooting for this tank (checking the pressure) didn't really say much. They say if you think there's a problem, call your contractor or well driller, that's it. Anyway, I'm pretty confident that it's the pressure tank bladder going bad. What I'm wondering if how to plumb the system...keep it the same, or change it. I've just recently updated the original post with an image of the current layout.

Ok, I guess I can't update the original post (?), so I've added the photo here.

 

I know you have to check the pressure off the valve stem on top with the tank empty. Cut the power to the pump and drain the tank completely. Your air pressure should be 2 psi below the cut in pressure, so if your pump kicks on at 20 psi, you want 18 psi air in the tank. Got that info here. How to Check the Bladder in a Well-X-Trol Tank | eHow.com

Mine looks to be the same size as yours. It's been sitting in a damp corner of my basement for at least 35 years now. Still working. I probably just jinxed myself.
If this issue just started and everything worked ok before, I wouldn't mess with the design of the plumbing.

 

I started to notice an issue a couple months ago with the pump running more often than I thought it should (you can hear it kick on from in the house). At that point, I did cut power to the pump and drained the system. I checked the pressure and made set it to 18psi (it was higher than it should have been for my 20-40psi switch). I forgot about it for awhile but now I know there's a problem. I run water, less than one gallon and the pump kicks on. It will run for less than 20-30 seconds and kicks off. Ideally I know it should run for 1-2 minutes and my tank is appropriately sized (a WX-203) for my 1/2HP pump. Gotta be the pressure tank at this point... Since I'm going to replace it, just curious if a check valve is a requirement/necessity/important item, or if my routing is fine.

btw, on the left side of the pressure tank Tee fitting is this 1" 90-deg. elbow. Then a bushing from 1" to 3/4". What is the other fitting? Is this a union?



Thanks,

 

The check valve is needed to prevent the pressurized water flowing back into the well. If your system has operated fine before then there must be a check valve already in place somewhere in your set-up. It could be an in-line valve that you don't see.....or it could be built in the pump itself.....or you simply have a foot valve at the bottom of your well. The symptom for a faulty check valve would be that the pump would mysteriously come on when no water was being used.

The last photo appears to be a compression fitting......if you loosen the top nut.....it will allow you to disconnect the copper pipe and easily change out the tank if necessary.




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Before you spend the money on the tank.......

Have you watched the gauge to see what pressure it kicks on and off?
It should still be 20/40 even if your tank pressure is low, it will just swing between at a faster rate. If it is kicking on at a much higher pressure then the pressure switch is faulty. Kicking on at 35 and off at 40 would give you the same quick cycle you are seeing.

With your tank laying on it's side you still have half a tank of water pushing on the bladder. Perhaps enough to give you a false high reading by several pounds? How many psi did you let out? It may have actually been low to begin with and you let more air out.

Lastly, with the tank pressurized, check the air valve for bubbles with soapy water to rule out a slow leak in the valve. If no water shoots out the valve when you depress it while the tank is at full water pressure, you can be fairly certain the bladder is intact as well. The only way that would be inaccurate is if your tank is positioned with the air valve at or near the highest point where it could be above the water line no matter what.

 

No check valve is required. You obviously have some type of valve, probably a foot valve, because if you didn't the pump would cycle on and off, even when you don't use water.

I agree. From what you have said that you drained the tank previously, set the air pressure, then refilled it. I assume that it worked well for a while and now you are getting less draw down of water between cycles. This is a symtom of a bad bladder in your pressure tank. The air that is in the tank, that creates the pressure, is slowly dissovling into the water, over time. This is the sole purpose of the bladder, to keep the air and the water apart.

Change the tank, set the air pressure, refill and you should be back in business. If you can find a tank that is supposed to go on its side, that would be better. The tank you have appears to be a vertical tank that you have set horizontal. This will affect your draw down and may require a different air pressure then what is specified. Alternatively, if you could turn the tanks output pipe so it is closer to the bottom and perhaps use a flexible pipe (pex or something) to connect to the other pipes, that might work better.

 

Thanks for the info. Yes, I have a convertible jet pump so I assume that there is a foot valve in the bottom of the well. I've lived in this house for 10 years now, out of its nearly 45 year life.

I now have a new WellMate WM-9 pressure tank and a new brass tank Tee with all fitting and connectors to replace the existing unit. I will also be laying this on it's side as my crawl space is not tall enough. I contacted the company and did receive confirmation that I can place this tank horizontal too. But I do understand where you are coming from.

I thought that might be a compression fitting, but wasn't sure. It must be a 3/4" compression to NPT male fitting that is within a 3/4"-to-1" NPT adapter. I'll have to buy a new one, or at least purchase a new compression sleeve I assume (?). I already bought a 1" brass elbow to replace the galvanized one in my current setup.

Thanks again for the help everyone, my plan is to replace the tank this weekend; I'll let you know how it goes.

 

That's great. You wanna try to get the spout of the tank as low to the ground as you can, pointing down if possible. This will give you the best draw down (most water between cycles).

You see if you think about it. If the air pressure in the tank is 2 psi less then the cut in pressure, then very little water is in the tank when the pump kicks in and starts to fill it. The tank is almost emply. If the pressure now has to double to shut the pump off, then the air volume has to be compressed to half of what it was. That lost volume is equal to the volume of the water. So the most water any pressure tank can put out is half the volume of the tank (when pump set for 20psi/40psi switching).

Now if you have the tank's spout so that it was above 25% of the tank. Then you have just cut your draw down of water between cycles, by 25%. Your tank is effectively 25% smaller.

May not matter that much, but just so you know, that is how it works.

 

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Don't over-think this.....it doesn't really matter what the orientation is.....this is a pressure tank with a bladder. The water is not free-flowing.....and there is no air in the bottom half of the tank. It will empty the same way regardless of which way the pipe is plumbed.....therefore the draw-down will not be affected.


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Looks like I may be thwarted from accomplishing the job this weekend. Can't find a silly 3/4" compression sleeve/ferrule, or new 3/4" compression to 3/4" NPT Male connector anywhere locally! I probably know the answer is No but if I reuse the same fitting and pipe, can I reuse the same compression sleeve? Otherwise, I need to order online. Some I've found say "not for potable water"... Alternatives to get the job done?

 

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If it is standard 3/4" copper pipe.....then you actually need a 7/8" compression fitting.

Should be able to get one at Home Depot etc.

But.....if the old ferrule is in good shape and compressed evenly on the pipe then you can most likely
re-use it with no problem. Just install the body of the fitting onto any new elbow or piping that goes to the new tank and make sure everything is lined up straight when you tighten the compression nut.


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Wow, I wouldn't have figured that, until I got it home and realized it didn't fit! Thanks for the info. If I can't find one locally, I know I have seen brass 3/4" unions that I may go with instead. I assume they'd work just as easily. I'd just need a copper to male NPT adapter to solder on, then a 3/4" NPT union, then a small 3/4" nipple to connect to rest of my tank Tee.

 

Success! The new WellMate tank is in place and everything went relatively smoothly. Thanks to our local True Value store, I was able to finally find a 7/8" compression sleeve.

The old Well-X-Trol tank was definately bad. Right before I drained the tank, I pushed in on the air valve with a screwdriver. Sure enough, I got a nice stream of water coming out! So I drained the tank and then disconnected it. Because of the bad bladder, the tank did not drain completely and it was an absolute bear to get out of the way and out of the crawlspace. That job was the most work and took the most time.

I had bought all new components (except for compression fitting) and hooked up everything to the new Tank Tee on the workbench. I took the advice of many internet posts to use teflon pipe tape and then pipe dope on each fitting. Only one connection to hook it all back up to the house system. And I really like the quick-connect fitting and the lightweight of the WellMate tank, I'm glad I made that choice to go with that brand.

I think I held my breathe for the entire time the well pump ran filling up the new tank, watching for any type of water to appear. No leaks! The water system is now behaving nicely, I've run a good amount of water in the house and still have not heard the pump kick on.



Thanks everyone for your help!

Tom

 

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Looks good......


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Thanks! And after over a week of having it installed, things are working great. When the pump kicks on, which isn't nearly as often as before, I've timed it to where if the water is immediately shut off, the pump will run for 2min. 40 seconds before shutting off. A bit longer than I had calculated, but still better than kicking on all the time and running for 10 seconds!