30/50 or 40/60?


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Old 04-24-13, 07:00 AM
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30/50 or 40/60?

Hi All,
I did some searching and really didn't find the answer. So mI appologize if this has been asked before.
30/50PSI or 40/60PSI and why?
I ask this question because my house is a split entry ranch that has 30/50psi for the domestic water. But I added a second floor with a full bathrrom.
Do I need to change the pressure rang? I also changed the copper pipping from 1/2" to 3/4".
 
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Old 04-24-13, 07:34 AM
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Do you know what your well (and/or Pump) output is (Gallons per minute)?
 
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Old 04-24-13, 07:35 AM
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The different pressures are largely just a matter of choice. It's easier for a pump to supply the lower pressures and it's less strain on old plumbing. Your existing 30/50 should be fine especially since you went to 3/4" piping which will minimize any pressure drop.
 
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Old 04-24-13, 08:28 AM
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Northern Mike, I think it is 5-7 gpm.
Thanks Pilot Dane.
 
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Old 04-24-13, 09:00 AM
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What type of pump? Some shallow well pumps cannot produce a higher pressure.

When they get near 60 psi they will just run and run. Its a matter of well water level and atmospheric pressure from what I know.
 
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Old 04-24-13, 09:12 AM
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lawrosa, My pump is about 300' down with a 6" pipe and the water level in the pipe is within 8' to the top. Cannot remember the pump size at this moement.
I think I will just stay at 30/50 psi.
Thanks everyone for your comments.
/quadcells
 
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Old 04-24-13, 09:32 AM
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So since pressure isn't normally a measurement found on well tests do we just crank it up to max & then back it off a few psi? I have 20/40 in my cottage but the Goulds cast iron shallow well pump looks plenty robust for higher output pressure. My house system is 30/50 on a newer submersible but the upstairs shower doesn't have much force. I'd like to dial them both up a little.
 
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Old 04-24-13, 09:37 AM
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Generally you will not notice a difference in pressure from one floor to the next caused by water pressure. The difference of going up one floor is only about 3 psi which is nothing compared to the 20-30 psi swings the pressure tank & pump go through when operating. If pressure is low on the second floor I would first check the screens, cartridges, aerators and flow restrictors on the fixtures and faucets and even an look into an undersized pipe or a partially blocked pipe or vavle between floors.
 
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Old 04-24-13, 12:05 PM
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Deep pumps can make oodles of pressure. I would be doing 60/40 at a minimum. In fact I would probably raise it to 70/50. make sure you have a relif valve on your system.

My one pipe shallow pump will make 70 psi. I have it at 65/45. I also repiped my mains in 1" and 3/4 risers to the upstairs. I have no pressure drop ( Volume ) when a toilet is flushed with a shower running.

Set your bladder tank accordingly.
 
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Old 04-25-13, 07:00 AM
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Mike how do you do a quick test to see how much pressure the pump is capable of? Just hold in the relay & see where it tops out?

I've now owned 3 homes with wells and can't recall ever seeing a pressure relief--where would it be installed and where would it "relief to"? Are we talking a blow-off vented to atmosphere...or more involved?
 
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Old 04-25-13, 07:11 AM
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Relief valves are common on deep pump applications. If the switch were to fail the pump can make a lot of pressure.

http://www.watersystemscouncil.org/V..._FINAL_507.pdf

On a deep well application just turn the cut in / cut off adjustment to raise both at the same time. Screw #1 on the pressure switch.

Be careful...High voltage.


Additionally if pex is added to your water system by code that I know, a 100 psi relief valve needs to be added to the system, as well as the water heater relief valve changed to the 100 psi variety.
 
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Old 04-25-13, 07:12 AM
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NO! Do not hold the switch down to see how high it will go. It will go until something like your pressure tank or plumbing ruptures. The pressure relief valve he mentioned is a safety measure in case of something like a stuck switch. The relief valve would open preventing damage to your plumbing.
 
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Old 05-01-13, 07:48 PM
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hmmm... It seems i should finally install a pressure relief on my deep well system.
although there is the 125 psi one on my water heater but my lovely 120Gal retention tank will give way before that....

All i know is that my well is 800ft deep.
Pressure setting: 45-70 (pump switch is a little tired) (free load just over 5GPM)
3/4" CPVC (only 1/2" inner diameter!) for main setup, 1-1/4" -> 3/4" CPVC -> pressure tank -> retention tank (120Gal 75psi MAX) -> Culligan carbon filter -> Old GI softener (with clogged distributor) -> whole house filter in bypass -> finally to house 3/4" Copper all after ONLY 18 ELBOWS!

All this was installed wonderfully by the culligan man back in 2003 when he put in the injection pump, retention tank, and carbon filter....

Original pressure switch was setup for 30/50 was set to 28/60 and i adjusted it to 45/70. Just today i checked the pressure tank, only had 20 psi of air! cranked it up to 40psi, much more consistent flow.
 
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Old 05-01-13, 07:54 PM
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guy48065

I have 20/40 in my cottage but the Goulds cast iron shallow well pump looks plenty robust for higher output pressure.
Thats what you'd like to think... My Grandparents cottage had a 7 year old 1 HP goulds pump. Most it could do was 42 PSI. And had pathetic water flow. The pressure switch got clogged a few times so the pump sat running making Steam. Impeller had gotten replaced 2 times, and when the plumber came out to fix it again (no family around to help at the time) He said Goulds quit making parts for it (a trustworthy plumber too) I checked, and well, no parts! Never buy Goulds again.

I just recently bought a 3/4 HP Grundfos Made in Italy cast Iron pump (industrial grade) for only $270 in NH for family vacation house thats up there. This by far blows away the Goulds. Way more pressure and water flow... Yet both shared the same head from water level.... only about 6 ft.
 
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Old 05-02-13, 07:52 AM
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...He said Goulds quit making parts for it (a trustworthy plumber too) I checked, and well, no parts! Never buy Goulds again.
[/B]
Goulds does make many models. When the pump in my first cottage was on its last legs I went to the town hardware store to see what they carry & check prices. They had mostly Goulds repair parts so that's what I bought when the time came. Out in the sticks I didn't want to be stuck with no water and parts that needed to be ordered from Italy.
Now I have a new (to me) cottage & a different pump. This one may very well be discontinued but there's a shiny new spare sitting the shelf. I sure HOPE it makes more than 42psi but I can live with that.

 
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Old 05-02-13, 08:03 AM
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guy48065,
Does that pressure tank only have one connection?
It looks a lot like a hot water boiler pressure tank.
 
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Old 05-02-13, 08:09 AM
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i occasionally use the goulds j-series pumps. same pump theyve made for 20 yrs, top of its class imo. i can get any part i want for them.

you basically ran a ford pickup truck with no oil for a few thousand miles then compared it to a brand new chevy.

how was the diffuser plate in the pump that ran hot? venturi? nozzle? i'd use a reliable well/pump specialist.. not a plumber.
 
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Old 05-02-13, 11:58 AM
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well in the small town of Hammondsport, NY there aren't many specialists (if any) as Keuka Lake is over 95% summer homes only.

The goulds was a shallow well jet pump. clean inside (minimal rust). Umm... How is this comparing a Ford with no oil for few thousand miles to a new chevy?????? We did exactly what we do to any other pump... Just this one sucked and I couldn't find an impeller any where for the life of me... Plus the replacement was a 1/2hp Wayne pump. WAY more water flow and runs @ 30/50 with ease.

The Grundfos shouldn't need parts for oh about 30+ years... The Grundfos replaced a 30+ year old Tait Pump 1/2hp that ran 30/50. And all that happened was the brass threads let go of the plastic impeller. I still have it and am buying a new impeller and saving it for a spare. Plus the Grundfos uses an Induction motor so it uses same amount of amps as the old 1/2hp Tait pump. Plus who on earth in the right mind doubts or questions Grundfos?
 
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Old 05-02-13, 08:32 PM
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WOW, an INDUCTION motor really? That must be a fancy pump.

I still can't figure out if you have a wayne or a grundfos?

I haven't seen one of those "Balanced Flow" pumps in a long time. Used to call them "watermelon" pumps because it looks like a big watermellon on the pump housing. It's supposed to be an all-in-one pump and tank system. They were discontinued after some guy named "Valveman" made them obsolete.

Most people with modern plumbing won't notice the difference between 30/50 or 40/60.
 
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Old 05-03-13, 05:45 AM
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if yall did what you would do to any pump, who can argue that? after all, it was clean inside..

we all secretly know that pumps such as wayne (big box store) are far better than goulds and the like. we just pay more for those pumps so we can make less profit..

some might say 30 yrs is a little optimistic these days, but i say oh with your apparent knowledge of water pumps (and their manufacturers)... you will no doubt hit your mark. good luck with it.
 
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Old 05-03-13, 06:20 AM
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Ok. Grandparents cottage used to have a goulds. It sucked. I know goulds are supposed to be good but the Wayne replacement has given us no trouble so far and has exceeded the capabilities of a 1 hp goulds for only being a 1/2 hp.

The grundfos is at a family house in NH. Far better quality then the Wayne and the goulds. The grundfos replaced an old 1/2hp tait pump that still out performed the 1hp goulds.

Maybe I just a real sh!ty goulds... I don't know. But for the price, that thing was never what I hoped it would be.
 

Last edited by Joe504; 05-03-13 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 05-03-13, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Northern Mike

guy48065,
Does that pressure tank only have one connection?
It looks a lot like a hot water boiler pressure tank.
I'm not sure I follow your question. All small bladder type expansion tanks I've seen only have one one connection (+ the schrader valve). Only difference I've noted is the label. Is there any visible difference I haven't noticed?

Only reason I care to know is because I do plan to replace that puny tank with a larger one--but I'd like to move it to my boiler if possible.
 
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Old 05-03-13, 07:39 AM
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Today, 08:45 AM
justwater
if yall did what you would do to any pump, who can argue that? after all, it was clean inside..

we all secretly know that pumps such as wayne (big box store) are far better than goulds and the like. we just pay more for those pumps so we can make less profit..

some might say 30 yrs is a little optimistic these days, but i say oh with your apparent knowledge of water pumps (and their manufacturers)... you will no doubt hit your mark. good luck with
Ok ummm. What fancy things do you have to do to a pump other than unhook, drain, and store till next spring... That's what I and all my friends do on the lake... And it works.

I never said the Wayne was better quality, just it is performing much better.

And 30 years from a grundfos pump. Very reasonable. Still have 40 year grundfos heating pumps running just fine. Hell, the tait pump I used to use is over 35 years old. Never had a single problem with it.

I am not saying all goulds suck. The one that I had at my grandparents cottage did.
 
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Old 05-03-13, 07:49 AM
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guy48065,
I must have been having an off day that day. You are correct, one connection.
 
 

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