finishing basement, need primary & backup sump advice
#1
07-25-13, 11:28 AM
finishing basement, need primary & backup sump advice
Hi all!
the title says it all here; we are beginning the process of finishing our basement and before getting too far into it, I think its a good idea to bulk up our drainage system to avoid any issues. The plan is to replace the existing sump pump simply because we bought the house as a foreclosure in January 2013 and don't have a clue as to how old the pump is (house built in 1997), then I'm thinking of dropping in a backup pump with battery backup as well.
For either pump, I know I want a cast iron as opposed to anything else...but don't really know where to start in choosing brands/style/etc. The current pump is a submersible and I think it is a 1/3 hp model. Currently the pump gets a workout under heavy rains, so I definitely don't want to put anything questionable down there. Furthermore, the pit will be sealed once the install is done, as we're having radon mitigation put in and that's part of the mitigation process. Because of the sealed pit, I want the backup in there in case the "___" hits the fan and I cannot access the pit quickly to swap something out.
Can anyone make a educated recommendation as to pump size, discharge rate, brand, etc? Is there any kind of reliable combo deals out there that include primary, backup, and battery backup all in one package? I've seen things like this online at home depot or other hardware stores, but I'd love some real first-person advice as to the best way to go. I'd be doing the install myself and I'm hoping to get it all done for less than $1000...if that helps with making any recommendations.
thanks!
the title says it all here; we are beginning the process of finishing our basement and before getting too far into it, I think its a good idea to bulk up our drainage system to avoid any issues. The plan is to replace the existing sump pump simply because we bought the house as a foreclosure in January 2013 and don't have a clue as to how old the pump is (house built in 1997), then I'm thinking of dropping in a backup pump with battery backup as well.
For either pump, I know I want a cast iron as opposed to anything else...but don't really know where to start in choosing brands/style/etc. The current pump is a submersible and I think it is a 1/3 hp model. Currently the pump gets a workout under heavy rains, so I definitely don't want to put anything questionable down there. Furthermore, the pit will be sealed once the install is done, as we're having radon mitigation put in and that's part of the mitigation process. Because of the sealed pit, I want the backup in there in case the "___" hits the fan and I cannot access the pit quickly to swap something out.
Can anyone make a educated recommendation as to pump size, discharge rate, brand, etc? Is there any kind of reliable combo deals out there that include primary, backup, and battery backup all in one package? I've seen things like this online at home depot or other hardware stores, but I'd love some real first-person advice as to the best way to go. I'd be doing the install myself and I'm hoping to get it all done for less than $1000...if that helps with making any recommendations.
thanks!
#2
07-25-13, 10:47 PM
Group Moderator
Welcome to the forums.
You got a lot going on there..... radon.... sealed sump pit...... finishing the basement ..... lots of water..... what about a power failure ? Battery is only a limited backup system.
It's going to take some careful planning to be well covered in case of any event.
You got a lot going on there..... radon.... sealed sump pit...... finishing the basement ..... lots of water..... what about a power failure ? Battery is only a limited backup system.
It's going to take some careful planning to be well covered in case of any event.
#3
07-26-13, 10:12 AM
Just a thought on a backup for the sump. If you have city water, there are sumps which are powered by the water pressure. Yes, it will waste some water during a power failure but beats a dead battery if you are on vacation.
#4
07-26-13, 11:55 AM
thanks guys!
yes, there is definitely a lot to think about to make sure I'm well prepared! I've been planning the basement for a few months now as far as layout, electrical, plumbing, etc. Luckily, the previous owner framed 90% of it, so a lot of the tough stuff is already done
as for any sustained power outages and my solution; I am looking now for a mid sized portable generator to use in this scenario. I'm in the chicagoland area, and I can find a used ~3-4k watt generator for under $300 fairly easily. I'm not that worried about that though; our power grid is pretty solid in my area and I've spoken to several neighbors who have said they can't remember the last time we've lost power longer than 30 mins...and they've lived there for 15 years. Plus, our electric is run underground in my area, so that along reduces the chance for long term outages.
I've see the water-powered backup sump pumps....read a good deal about them in fact. Its definitely a viable option in my case, but for some reason I just don't like the idea. Don't know what it is. Until I started researching, I'd never heard of them...there's people praising them online, but they must not be used much in this part of the country or something. Or I'm just a dolt for not knowing about them until now...definitely possible!
yes, there is definitely a lot to think about to make sure I'm well prepared! I've been planning the basement for a few months now as far as layout, electrical, plumbing, etc. Luckily, the previous owner framed 90% of it, so a lot of the tough stuff is already done
as for any sustained power outages and my solution; I am looking now for a mid sized portable generator to use in this scenario. I'm in the chicagoland area, and I can find a used ~3-4k watt generator for under $300 fairly easily. I'm not that worried about that though; our power grid is pretty solid in my area and I've spoken to several neighbors who have said they can't remember the last time we've lost power longer than 30 mins...and they've lived there for 15 years. Plus, our electric is run underground in my area, so that along reduces the chance for long term outages.
I've see the water-powered backup sump pumps....read a good deal about them in fact. Its definitely a viable option in my case, but for some reason I just don't like the idea. Don't know what it is. Until I started researching, I'd never heard of them...there's people praising them online, but they must not be used much in this part of the country or something. Or I'm just a dolt for not knowing about them until now...definitely possible!
#5
07-27-13, 07:48 PM
Member
OP I hope you're still reading this.
DC powered backup pumps are nowhere near sufficient to take over for a primary pump in the event of power outage or primary pump failure. Do your research and you will see this to be true. whatever you do, do NOT get a basement watchdog system -- they are ridiculous pieces of toy-grade crap.
You say your pump gets a workout. you need 2 full power AC "primary" pumps in your pit -- not one primary and one whimpy DC backup pump.
I am not a salesman, or affiliated with any pump company. In my opinion, Storm Pro pumps are the best. I have a Storm Pro BA33M, and a Zoeller M98. I use the BA33M as my primary. The Zoeller is a tank, but I like the storm pro better. it is smaller, more efficient, quieter, and uses a very good adjustable vertical float switch. If I were to do it over I'd get 2 Storm Pro BA50Ms (the 1/2hp version). they pump massive water and only draw 5 amps.
Power at leat one pump with a backup power source -- even though you have a reliable power grid, you will eventually find yourself in the situation of having heavy storm water and a power outage. it will happen. you need to be ready for it. I power both my "primary" pumps with a DC/AC power inverter/charger driven by deep cycle batteries. the inverters have real 3-stage chargers to properly charge the batteries --- this is something the cheapo DC backup systems lack (and hence they boil the snot out of the batteries and sulfate them quickly -- again, do your research, don't take my word for it).
if you get a whole house generator - great - just make sure it's ready to take over automatically without delay. but why, with such a reliable power grid, would you get a generator?
for full details on how to set up a DC/AC powered system read the following link. everything you need to know is there...
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/we...sump-pump.html
DC powered backup pumps are nowhere near sufficient to take over for a primary pump in the event of power outage or primary pump failure. Do your research and you will see this to be true. whatever you do, do NOT get a basement watchdog system -- they are ridiculous pieces of toy-grade crap.
You say your pump gets a workout. you need 2 full power AC "primary" pumps in your pit -- not one primary and one whimpy DC backup pump.
I am not a salesman, or affiliated with any pump company. In my opinion, Storm Pro pumps are the best. I have a Storm Pro BA33M, and a Zoeller M98. I use the BA33M as my primary. The Zoeller is a tank, but I like the storm pro better. it is smaller, more efficient, quieter, and uses a very good adjustable vertical float switch. If I were to do it over I'd get 2 Storm Pro BA50Ms (the 1/2hp version). they pump massive water and only draw 5 amps.
Power at leat one pump with a backup power source -- even though you have a reliable power grid, you will eventually find yourself in the situation of having heavy storm water and a power outage. it will happen. you need to be ready for it. I power both my "primary" pumps with a DC/AC power inverter/charger driven by deep cycle batteries. the inverters have real 3-stage chargers to properly charge the batteries --- this is something the cheapo DC backup systems lack (and hence they boil the snot out of the batteries and sulfate them quickly -- again, do your research, don't take my word for it).
if you get a whole house generator - great - just make sure it's ready to take over automatically without delay. but why, with such a reliable power grid, would you get a generator?
for full details on how to set up a DC/AC powered system read the following link. everything you need to know is there...
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/we...sump-pump.html
#6
07-29-13, 08:57 AM
Thanks sky jumper! Great info and I will definitely look into your advise. To clarify, I'm not thinking of a whole-house generator, just a small portable one to power only the sump in case of a prolonged outage.
I've been hoping that someone like yourself would come by and tell me NOT to get one of those all-in-one primary/backup units...you confirmed my initial feelings reaction to seeing those. Why get a "backup" pump that cannot perform to the same specifications as the primary?
Do you have a standard sized pit? If so, did you have any issues mounting dual full-size pumps in there? I assume you staggered them...if so, did you just place the backup on blocks or something? How about the drainage pipes...dual or did you combine them into one pipe? I don't see an issue in running it all out one pipe, but perhaps I'm missing something there?
As for the battery backup, I definitely need to keep reading and learning about those. My skills are lacking in the electrical department, which is why the "all in one" primary/backup pump w/ batt backup were so appealing. What i need to do is keep learning and just put something together myself.
I've been hoping that someone like yourself would come by and tell me NOT to get one of those all-in-one primary/backup units...you confirmed my initial feelings reaction to seeing those. Why get a "backup" pump that cannot perform to the same specifications as the primary?
Do you have a standard sized pit? If so, did you have any issues mounting dual full-size pumps in there? I assume you staggered them...if so, did you just place the backup on blocks or something? How about the drainage pipes...dual or did you combine them into one pipe? I don't see an issue in running it all out one pipe, but perhaps I'm missing something there?
As for the battery backup, I definitely need to keep reading and learning about those. My skills are lacking in the electrical department, which is why the "all in one" primary/backup pump w/ batt backup were so appealing. What i need to do is keep learning and just put something together myself.
#7
07-29-13, 01:46 PM
Member
I have a standard pit. 18" I think. I had no issues getting 2 primary pumps in it, but one of them is the Storm Pro which has a much smaller footprint than the Zoeller. I probably could not fit 2 Zollers. I could fit 2 Storm Pro BA50Ms, which is what I'd recommend you do.
I use the Zoller as my "secondary". Since it has a fixed switch I did have to prop it up on a brick. however, with Storm Pro pumps the switch is adjustable (e.g. you set the height based on how high you attach it to the output pipe). So with 2 Storm Pro pumps you can put them both on the bottom of the pit, and set one switch a couple inches higher. you can then swap the pump plugs a couple times a year to give each pump a workout.
I have my pumps connected to a Y, with a single discharge pipe out of the house. I works fine, but technically they should be run separately for maximum flow. I did use a 2" pipe for the "primary" so that I could use a 2" check valve for better flow. I had to use reducers to fit it to the rest of the set up. no biggee.
I put links to pics of my system in that other thread.
I use the Zoller as my "secondary". Since it has a fixed switch I did have to prop it up on a brick. however, with Storm Pro pumps the switch is adjustable (e.g. you set the height based on how high you attach it to the output pipe). So with 2 Storm Pro pumps you can put them both on the bottom of the pit, and set one switch a couple inches higher. you can then swap the pump plugs a couple times a year to give each pump a workout.
I have my pumps connected to a Y, with a single discharge pipe out of the house. I works fine, but technically they should be run separately for maximum flow. I did use a 2" pipe for the "primary" so that I could use a 2" check valve for better flow. I had to use reducers to fit it to the rest of the set up. no biggee.
I put links to pics of my system in that other thread.
#8
07-29-13, 07:48 PM
thanks!
so it turns out that I have the ability to get my hands on a used 24V 2,200AV APC UPS system. The price is right at $0...generous donation from the old man who owns a communication/internet provider and he's updating some equipment. He recommended I get a pair of 12V 100A AGM batteries, which are about $200 a pop. It would give me maximum run time and would get me longer life and less maintenance. This will only give me backup on one pump, but chances are good to get another UPS unit down the road, so I can buy more batteries at that time to power the second pump.
not sure what pumps I'll go with, likely something I can pick up locally. I'll have to look around to see if I can find professional grade pumps from a supplier or something near me.
so it turns out that I have the ability to get my hands on a used 24V 2,200AV APC UPS system. The price is right at $0...generous donation from the old man who owns a communication/internet provider and he's updating some equipment. He recommended I get a pair of 12V 100A AGM batteries, which are about $200 a pop. It would give me maximum run time and would get me longer life and less maintenance. This will only give me backup on one pump, but chances are good to get another UPS unit down the road, so I can buy more batteries at that time to power the second pump.
not sure what pumps I'll go with, likely something I can pick up locally. I'll have to look around to see if I can find professional grade pumps from a supplier or something near me.
