Well Pump Help?


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Old 09-25-13, 08:34 PM
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Well Pump Help?

I'm usually pretty good at fixing things, but know nothing about plumbing and this well setup has me puzzled. A little background. The well is used only for an irrigation system and an additional faucet on both the front and back of the house. I've been in the house 7 years and everything was here when I moved in. The pump and well has worked fine up until a couple weeks ago. The pump is a Sta Rite SNE-L jet pump with a 30/50 switch.

I came back from a vacation and the pump was running with no pressure. Not sure how many hours or days it had been running, but was surprised it hadn't overheated or tripped a breaker. Unplugged it and tried to figure out the problem. No noticeable leaks. Checked the tank with a tire gauge and it had 0 psi. Got out the compressor and filled it to 28 psi.

This is where I'm not sure if I'm following the correct procedure. In the attached picture there is the blue "regular" faucet round valve, a black valve on the pipe, and an octagon shaped plug on the pipe going from the pump back into the wall.

I thought maybe there was a priming issue. I tried hooking up a hose to the blue valve, opening it up and running water into the system. I've also tried adding water into the octagon shaped plug. I've even tried various combinations of open and closed blue valve, black valve, etc and can't get the system to work correctly. The pump will get to about 20 psi, but no higher.

Can someone tell me the purpose of the black valve? Shouldn't is always be open? When woukd I use the blue valve? What's the plug used for? Priming? What would be the correct procedure for getting everything back up and running? Could it be a bad bladder in the tank?

As you can see, I'm really stumped and feel like I've tried everything. Thank you very much for any info and help.


 
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Old 09-26-13, 05:32 AM
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It is possible the well has gone dry or their may be a leak in the pipe between the pump and well allowing air to enter. That is a self priming pump so if it's in good shape it should be able to eventually get going on it's own. If the pump is well worn it may not be able to develop enough suction to self prime so there is the possibility the pump is worn out. If the pump ran dry for a long time it could have harmed the pump's seal since it relies on water for cooling and lubrication.

You can turn the pump off and look on top of the pump housing under the blue pressure tank. There should be a fitting you can remove to add water directly to the pump housing. Fill it up with water, install the plug and turn the pump on. It should take less than 5 or 6 minutes to prime.

The black ball valve generally would be left open. I'm not sure it's needed on a dedication irrigation set-up but it does not hurt.

The bladder in your pressure tank could be ruptured which is why it had zero pressure but that would not prevent the pump from working. If the bladder were intact the tank would hold pressure even without water. Have you re-checked it's pressure since you filled it?
 
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Old 09-26-13, 10:53 AM
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Thank you for the reply. I will try your suggestion after work and see what happens. While messing around with it last night, I opened the blue valve and believe I let all the pressure out of the tank. I will hook up the compressor again and see what happens. Thanks.
 
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Old 09-26-13, 05:35 PM
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Most modern pressure tanks have a rubber bladder that separates the air and water. There are only two ways the air can escape. Through the Schrader valve used to fill it and if the bladder develops a leak. If the pressure is down after your last filling then it probably has a leak and needs to be replaced.

The pressure tank does not make your pump operate. It just helps it operate better by limiting the amount of cycling on/off that the pump does. If the pressure tank is bad I don't think replacing it will get your pump running. Hopefully adding water to the pump housing will get it going.
 
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Old 09-26-13, 07:57 PM
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Thank you for the info. I was able to get the gauge up to 50 psi tonight, but as soon as the swithch kicked in, it immediately lost pressure and kept bouncing back and forth between the 30/50. The tanks and pipe also made a loud gurgling noise. Am I correct in thinking it may be a bad check valve?

Everything was already here when I bought the house so I have no idea where that might be located.
 
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Old 09-26-13, 10:04 PM
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You got the system up to 50 psi. If you did absolutely nothing else..... in a perfect system the pressure would stay right there. If it did indeed stay right there it would mean that you have no leaks and the foot valve is ok.

If the gauge goes down slowly.....turn off the black valve so no water can go to the irrigation system. Does the gauge continue to go down slowly...... if yes then there is a leak between the pump and the foot valve or the foot valve is defective.

We'll assume that the pressure is holding steady. Now you start the pump and the pressure goes down and then back up...... that could be air that has leaked out of your pressure tank and into the pump line.

You need to temporarily take the focus off the pressure tank. To eliminate any problems from it for right now....let the air out. Now open the blue valve so that water can flow freely. Turn the pump on. The pump should pick up the prime in a few minutes and the water should be coming out of the blue tap. Let it run for a few minutes. Don't worry about building pressure. Now close the blue tap. The pressure should start rising and approach the pump shutoff pressure and then the pump should shut off.

Let us know what happens.

FYI.... a check valve would be located next to the pump and a foot valve is located at the bottom of the well. You have no check valve in your picture.
 
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Old 09-27-13, 12:03 PM
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Thank you for the suggestion. I tried your suggestion by closing off the black irrigation valve and turning on pump. I could not get the pump to deliver water through the blue valve.

Next I hooked up a hose to the blue valve from my city water faucet and pushed water into the system. Doing that I was able to build up some pressure when I turned the pump on. As soon as I opened the black valve, the pressure dropped to zero and it sounded like water was emptying out of the tank at a fast rate.

Is a check valve always located next to the pump? The pipe from my well head runs in the crawl space under my house into the garage. I thought about getting under the house this weekend so see if there is maybe a check valve in the crawl space.

After a lot of trial and error, I was able to get my irrigation system temporarily working by slowly opening up the black valve in small increments and letting the pump catch up, then slowly closing the blue valve that was pumping in water. As soon as I turned off the sprinkler, the tank quickly dropped to zero and I could here the loud gurgling noise.
 
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Old 09-27-13, 12:43 PM
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I thought about getting under the house this weekend so see if there is maybe a check valve in the crawl space.
Please do ! You need to know everything about the system. We can't see what you can.

The check valve can be anywhere between the well and pump but usually installed at the pump end. The check valve only keeps water at the pump so that the system primes quickly. Once water is coming out of the pump the check valve is no longer active.

The black valve is the feed to your irrigation system. If you are losing water or pressure when you open it then water is leaking out in your irrigation system.

That may be why the pump was pumping nothing. All the water leaked out and the well was pumped dry. For right now..... keep the black valve closed. You need to see if you can build up pressure at the pump and tank. Once you determine that the system can build up pressure.... you can start looking for leaks out in the irrigation piping.

I'm trying to educate you so that we can get this resolved.

We need to determine that the pump can build pressure. If it can't build up pressure then it cannot deliver flow then it's shot.

Leave black valve closed and blue valve open. You should start getting water out of the blue tap. If you don't get flow out of the blue tap in like 5 minutes..... turn off the pump. Connect your hose to the blue tap. Fill the system with water until the pressure gauge stops rising. Shut the blue tap.

Does the pressure gauge stay in the same place or does it drops slowly or does it drop rapidly ?

If the pressure drops any you have a leak. Since the black valve is still closed the leak is towards the well. Since that line is before the pump.... any leak will allow air into the system. If the foot valve is leaking..... the system will not hold pressure and the water will drain back into the well making it almost impossible for the pump to prime itself.

Now that you have some pressure up..... start the pump. It should be able to raise the pressure up and shut itself off. If the pressure rises but not enough or you hear gurgling again.....open blue tap and allow some water to escape. See if the system will purge all the air out of the suction line.
 
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Old 09-27-13, 04:09 PM
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Thank you once again for trying to help me. I truly appreciate any advice in trying to solve this problem. So I tried your suggestions. Closed the black irrigation valve, opened the blue valve, and turned on the pump. Waited several minutes. No water out the valve, no pressure ever built up.

Next step was to connect hose from city water faucet and pumped into system. Turned on hose. Turned on pump. Tank built to 50 psi and then when the cut off switch kicked in, the pressure dropped very quickly to 30 psi with a loud gurgling noise. Pump kicked in at 30 psi until it reached 50 psi and just kept doing the same thing over and over again. Tank would drop very quickly to 30 psi then pump would kick in to 50 psi and drop very quickly again to 30 psi. It did this repeatedly whether or not I kept water pumping in or not.

So to summarize, I can't get any pressure out of the pump by itself. Once attaching city water, I can get pressure, but tank will not hold it at all. It sounds like every time the pressure switch kicks in at 50 psi that the water is dropping very rapidly back into the well.
 
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Old 09-27-13, 04:18 PM
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It sounds like every time the pressure switch kicks in at 50 psi that the water is dropping very rapidly back into the well.
That's exactly what I think is happening too. That means your foot valve is not sealing. So your next course of action would be to pick up the well point or try a check valve in the line from the well.
 
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Old 09-29-13, 04:21 PM
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Okay...so I was able to get under the house this weekend. There is no check valve. I was able to see where the pvc from pump exited the crawlspace and into my backyard. I was able to dig and trace the pipe up until the point it goes under my deck. Looks like the well was dug before the deck went in. Without taking apart the deck, I'm not sure I'll be able to locate the well head.

Here's my big question. I'm guessing my foot valve is bad which is allowing water do go back down the well after pump shuts off. If I install a check valve, the pump will hold pressure, but wouldn't that allow everything after the check valve to just go back down into well. Am I really accomplishing anything by installing a check valve if the foot valve is bad?

Thanks for any help.
 
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Old 09-29-13, 06:27 PM
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Installing a check valve above the ground or towards the pump relies on the system being completely sealed between the point and the check valve. If you can't get to the point or can't lift it at this time.... a check valve would be the only way the system would operate. It's basically a band aid.... so it's that or no water.
 
 

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