I need help understanding / identifying what I have in my basement in my (new to me) house.

Things I know for sure:
1) There is a hole in the ground with a pump in it
2) Inputs: basement bathroom (shower pan, toilet, sink), laundry sink/waste water, condensate from furnace/AC, a floor drain
3) Outputs: line that's an upside-down U to the city sewer


Things I am not sure about:
1) If it also accepts foundation water
2) If this is a sump pump or sewage ejector pump

Why I'm not sure:
1) Don't know how to tell if I have drain tile. To my knowledge, no flooding issues
2) Only one pipe comes out the pit; read an ejector pump should have a vent pipe coming out.
3) The lid is unsealed. Read an ejector pump should have a lid.

So do you guys think I have a sump or sewage ejector? Or some type of combined system?

FYI this is a house built in the 50s

 

If it processes sewage then it's an ejector pit which should be sealed airtight with a vent line.
It shouldn't have any rainwater entering it.

Sounds like somone's do-it-incorrectly-yourself project. It must smell heavenly

 

Thanks PJmax. Kind of figured something's not right about this setup. The toilet bubbles & "chugs" like crazy upon flushing, I did read that could mean a clogged vent. This bathroom doesn't see much usage aside from the occasional #1, sometimes there is the sewage smell in the laundry room with the pit, but nothing unbearable. Just makes me wonder what stuff is being released in the air now....

The pit itself looks like it's been there forever, and since the floor drains empty into it, is it likely that it was originally a sump pump system, and then when the bathroom was added to the basement, they just (incorrectly) tied it into the sump? Are sump pits just "holes in the ground" or is there actually an enclosure?

Can a sump pump process solids? I know they're meant for water but let's say some sewage got into the pit; would a sump pump instantly clog? Because maybe they replaced the sump pump with an ejector. Any way to visually tell a sump pump from an ejector?

This basement bathroom doesn't see much usage, and when it does, 95% of the time what goes in the drain is liquid. But there is still that other 5% that sees solids, and those solids do make it into the sump pit & eventually disappear. Now questioning if they are disappearing by means of the pump or just backflowing or settling...

Assuming this was originally a sump pump system when the house was built and then someone tied a bathroom into it & replaced the sump pump with a sewage ejector, what are the implications? Should I have any immediate concerns?

 

A regular sump pump doesn't have a grinder and can't handle solids. The solids may just be collecting on the bottom.

An ejection pit should be completely contained while a sump pit usually has open sides or holes and also holes in the bottom.

 

That would really be something if I have solids at the bottom! Especially with an unsealed-lid!

If this were your house...what would your remediation process be if the issue is having a toilet draining into to a sump pump/pit? Would I have to have a hazmat crew come in or something?

 

I would call in a professional plumber for an "evaluation" (those are key words there). In my area that will cost about $100 for about an hour.

There are times when DIY is bad and this is one of them. It's probably going to cost you a fortune if you want the toilet to keep working. You will need a grinder and a separate tank and I don't know what-all, but the plumber will.

Might be cheaper to abandon the bathroom. Is it that hard to walk upstairs?

I know an elderly couple that spent the big bucks to set this up, and they made out okay. They lived in a 1920's house that had kraft paper for insulation. Here in Florida, it gets hotter than hell and if you have kraft paper for insulation, your air conditioning bill can be higher than what a heating bill costs in Maine.

This old house had a finished basement (a rare thing here) so they had a kitchen installed as well as a bathroom and they moved into the basement in the summer and turned off the A/C. The basement stayed between 70-75F 40% RH all summer.

It paid for itself in less than two years.

I'll never forget the wife. She walked up to me one day waggling her finger in my face and accusing said with her Georgia accent, "When you were growing up here, you didn't have air conditioning, did you?!"

I was taken a bit aback and I said, 'No ma'am, nobody did except Publix and the movie theaters and the banks" and she said, "How on EARTH did you stand it?! I would have gone crazy!"

I honestly don't know how we stood it.

 

Vey - Yep, I've already got a plumber scheduled; just posted on here for more ideas. Most of the stuff I ask is primarily me just trying to gain knowledge on issues & common approaches taken as opposed to waiting for instructions on how to do things myself. We(me & the lady) have only been in the house less than a year so I'm still discovering "stuff."

As mentioned, this bathroom doesn't really see any usage; it's more an alternate bathroom. Basement is finished but has no heat supply, so 9 times out of 10 we'll wait for the main floor bath to be free before deciding to trek down to the basement, unless it's an emergency. Only reason we even go into the basement is to do laundry...

My questions are targeted at knowing:
- "if this is damaging the house or its occupants in some way that I can't see"
versus
- "what can I do to get a properly working bathroom in here"

 

"Basement is finished but has no heat supply,"

I guess furnaces are more efficient than they used to be. That used to be the heat source.

A pit full of water all the time needs a dehumidifier, doesn't it? To keep from damaging the wood?

 

Reply back when you hear from the plumber.

 

landfillwizard, of course I will let you all know what the plumber says. Are there any things that you would like clarified?

 

Talked to a licensed plumber. He confirmed that the current pit was serving bathroom waste as well as foundation water, however the installed pump is an ejector.

We emptied the pit out by messing with the float & luckily the bottom was not filled with sewage. The water level before the pump kicks in is above the inlet where the bathroom/foundation drain enters the side of the basin. So at full capacity before the pump kicks in, that pipe is full of water. Explains why the toilet is hard to flush until the pump frees up some volume within the basin.

Another interesting thing is that after the pump kicks in & empties the basin, all the water from the inlet rushes into the basin again but after the pump turns off, the water level is right at the bottom of the inlet and I can see basin water flowing _into_ the inlet! To me this means the water level in the basin is higher than some other piping and now the water level is searching for equilibrium. I believe this means there's a potential for waste water in the sump to backflow into the piping serving foundation water/drain tile. Or even waste water from the toilet to fill up drain tile before it even gets to the sump pit! Not to mention, when the sump basin is empty & the inlet is only half full, I've probably got some bad air getting into the rest of the house since the ejector doesn't have a vent pipe nor a sealed lid.

To make matters worse, the condensate line from the furnace used to be drop into the basin as well. I don't even want to think about the fact that sewer gas could have possibly been flowing up the condensate line & into the furnace plenum, circulating that throughout the house!!!

At the end of the day, I know the fix is separate ejector/sump pits that are properly installed. But like Vey mentioned, I'm just gonna abandon the bathroom for now. The good thing is that we hardly ever use this bathroom so the water is at least somewhat clean in the basin. I also need to keep the water level within the basin above the inlet (though technically it should be below) to help with sewer gas suppression, and I'm now keeping the window cracked down there (even if it'll hurt my "energy efficiency"). He's coming back so we can get a cam up the pipes to see what's going on, but at least I can now explain what's in my house. That was my main goal. Fixing the issue is a whole other problem!

Any comments or suggestions given this new info?

 

Just to be safe, ask the plumber if there is any way to put a P-trap in the inlet of the furnace condensate drain before it goes into the tank?

 

If you follow the condensate line to the furnace you should see some type of trap close to the unit.

 

Sorry, I meant to say "the condensate line from the old furnace used to be dropped into the basin". When we got here, the furnace had a plastic tube coming out that then hooked up to a thin copper pipe that terminated into the lid of the sump (just a small hole cut in the plastic of the lid). Don't recall seeing any traps. Furnace has since been replaced & now the condensate goes into the sink (after being pumped upwards) so I don't think that's a problem right now.

However, that still doesn't mean that gas isn't circulating throughout the house in general since there's no lid & no vent. I'm gonna grab a hydrogen sulfide meter so I can monitor sewer gas levels, and also try my best to just keep the basin wet & let the pump empty it ever so often so the basin has some flow, decreasing the bacteria population. Looking at the Wikipedia article for hydrogen sulfide, the symptoms they list sound like deja vu. Sucks I'm gonna have to spend a couple grand to get this fixed so soon after buying the house but I'd rather not breathe **** every day!