I have a jet pump that has been used for probably 15 years. The last 7-8 of which have been seasonal. When I returned this season and turned on the pump it would run steady and not turn off. After 20 - 30 minutes I shut it down and replaced the pressure switch. That did not solve the problem. Ready to give up my uncle tapped the side of the pump with a wrench and the pressure switch started to work. A bunch of dirt seemed to pass through the system. So, after all of that I now have running water with poor pressure. A shower is nearly impossible to take. In past years that pressure would be poor until the pump kicked in and then the pressure was almost too much. This year the pressure starts out poor and the pump kicks in and nothing changes, the pressure remains poor. The pump does not affect the pressure at all. I should point out that the tank pressure is in excess of 50 psi when full and the tank is not water logged that I am aware of. It does take about 5 minutes to refill the tanks after a shower.

Any suggestions?

 

Welcome to the forums.

You should have a pressure gauge on the system so that you know what the pressure is.

If the pump itself wasn't working you'd have 0 psi of water pressure.

It is very possible that the small line or fitting connecting the pressure switch to your system is rusted/clogged. You can't tell if a tank is water logged by looking at it. The system needs to have 0 psi of pressure in it(let all the water drain out) and then your pressure tank should be set to 2 psi below your pressure switch setting.

 

Yes, I have a pressure guage but it does not work. I use a tire pressure guage directly on the tank and it reads to a maximum of 50 and the tank will blow the stick out right to the end indicating that it is greater than 50 PSI. Thier is definitly air in the tank.

 

You are not telling us what we need to know to help you. If you have a bladder tank (probably do) PJ is right about the pressure being 2 psi below the cut-in pressure of the pressure switch, measured with the pump off and valves open. It is not likely you should have more than 50 psi on the tank unless you are reading pressure with the pump on and the pressure switch is not working right. BTW, a bladder tank will have only a fitting on the bottom of the tank and the shrader valve on the top. There are other tanks that have fittings near the bottom and another near the middle of the tank. These tanks use a completely different method of maintaining air in the tank.
My suggestion: shut the pump off, drain the system, remove the pressure switch and run a wire down the small pipe it is mounted on to ream it out. Re-install pressure sw. Install a good pressure gauge (ream out the port with the wire to make sure the pressure gauge can read pressure). With the pump off and system drained, measure the pressure on the (assumed) bladder tank. It should be 2 psi below the cut-in of the pressure switch (probably about 35 psi), if not, add or release pressure to make it right. If you get water out the shrader valve, most likely the bladder is shot and you need to replace the tank.
Another failure mode of bladder tanks is that the bladder collapses and blocks the tank inlet. In this case, the system will act as if there is not a tank in the system. Ie, the pump will build pressure quickly and cycle rapidly.
HTH, let us know what you find.

 

Yes, I took the pressure reading at the shrader valve on the top of the tank. I do not have a guage to replace the permanent guage that is not working properly but if it is plugged up that is a relativly easy fix provided I can get it off the tank. I will drain the system as you described and restart and see what happens. My concern is that the jet pump itself simply is not delivering the pressure that it once did but it has no problem pressurizing the tank.

 

Ok, I have better pressure now...

This is what I did,

Drained system including tank and all pipes but not the HotWater tank.
There was still 5 psi in the tank after the drain so I released that air.
Used wire to ream out any place I could... I did not find any dirt...
Primed the system
Turned on the system
Refilled tank, turned off at 50 psi and adjusted the pressure switch.
Turned system on and the pressure switch shut it off at about 55 psi
Filled pipes
pressure cut on switch activates at 32 psi

I measured the pressure at the shrader valve as I do not have a replacement guage

I did notice that a lot of sediment was in the bath tub upstairs after I restarted the system.

So, I have pressure now. Still not as good as it was in previouse years but enough to have a good shower. My other questions is what are ideal cut on and off pressures? is my 30/50 good or should I boost it. On the old pressure switch I am sure it was much higher but I am not sure that it is needed.

 

There is no ideal cut in/off pressures. It is really a preference. Lower pressures are easier on pipes and pumps but some people do like having their head massaged when in the shower. So you decide.

The important thing is that whatever your cut in pressure is, that the air in the tank (when completely drained of water) is a minimum of 2 psi lower. Your comment that there was 5 psi in the tank when it was completely drained, has me thinking that your system is not set right.

Remember, there will always be air in the tank, even with a ruptured bladder, since when it is drained air gets into the pipes and is pushed into the tank when it is refilled. Your system could simply be working on the air that got into the wrong side of the bladder (since 5 psi on the other side is not going to give you much water). The problem is that, this air on the wrong side of the bladder, will be fleeting. It will dissolve into the water over the next one to three weeks and you will start to notice that your pump is short cycling. Keep an eye on this or drain the system again and pump some proper air into the tank to 2 psi below your pump's cut in pressure.

 

Yes, with the system drained I had 5 PSI in the tank but I released it. Actually, days after first starting the system up the pump was short cycling and I pumped some air into the tank. That fixed the short cycling but not the pressure issue. Todays procedure seems to have fixed the pressure issue as well. I have not tried a shower yet but I will know for sure how well it works when I do.

 

In your above statement, it was not the releasing of the air that fixed your short cycling issue, it was the draining and refilling that did it. Unfortunately, you will find out that it will be a short lived fix. As time goes by the air that snuck in there when you drained the tank, that is making your system appear to work well, will eventually dissolve into the water and the pump will go back to short cycling.

You really need to empty the tank and refill the air in the other side of the bladder, to 2 psi below your cut in pressure. At least add something. Another check of your systems operating performance is to see if you are getting at least 25% of the size of your pressure tank, in drawdown water between pump cycles. In other words if you had a 20 gallon pressure tank, you should get at least 5 gallons of water before your pump kicks on and refills the tank. It is this water that will slowly decrease until it is a few ounces of water between cycles. At that point it will appear that the pump is short cycling but it is really just emptying and refilling the few ounces of water your system can provide with insufficient air to push more.

 

So, with a drained system there should still be about 30 psi in the tank? My cut in is about 33 psi right now and the cut out is around 50-53.

 

That is right. You see, how it all works is that if you set the air pressure to something under the cut in pressure, as the pump pushes the water above that air pressure, the water will begin to fill up the tank. As the volume of water goes into the tank, that air gets compressed raising its pressure to the same as the water. Your pump will pump up both air and water to around 50-53psi and shut off. It is that compressed air at 50psi that is pushing the water through your system, when the pump is not on. Without that air, there will be no pressure.

Another law of physics is that volume is inversely proportional to pressure. So in other words as the water is pushed out of the tank, the volume for the air increases and the air pressure decreases. If you had more air in the tank you would get more water between pump cycles. Unfortuneately if you put the air pressure higher then the cut in you may experience the bladder collapsing on itself, creating its own set of problem. So with all that in mind, the highest volume of air and water that can be in the tank is 50% of each, so that is the theoretical maximum amount of water (50% of the volume of the tank) you will get from a pressure tank. Reduce the air or the water from 50% and you will get less water. So when your air dissolves back into the water, your drawdown will drop accordingly. This is why the bladder in a pressure tank is used, to prevent this air dissolving. By the way, no one ever gets the theoretical maximum water of 50% of the volume of their tanks. If you get 1/3rd you should feel pretty good about your set up. 25% is my minimum requirement before I leave things alone.

So in a nutshell, without air you will get no pressure and without enough air you will get insufficient water between pump cycles. I hope some of that makes sense. So yes, empty the tank and pre-charge your pressure tank to 30 psi and then refill. You should be good to go. You really don't need to know all the physics formulas and mumbo jumbo.

 

Thanks for the explanation, it helps a lot. I will wait a few days prior to doing this entire process again. I guess that somehow the air must have leaked out of my tank over the winter months while I was away. Perhaps the air bladder has a hole in it? If that is the case the air will slowly dissolve into the water and I will lose the air pressure again right? Hopefully that is not the case.

 

Absolutely. If over time you notice a reduction in your drawdown (amount of water you get between pump cycles) then there is a very good chance that your bladder has a leak, or there is an air leak from the schrader valve. Eventually you should notice the pump short cycling but that only happens when there is very little air left. Any loss of air will result in some loss of water so I tend to look at the clock and measure how long it takes to fill the tank and if this time reduces over time, I know something is up. This measurement isn't easy because it will take longer for your pump to refill the tank when water is being used (a shower for instance) then it will if the pump kicks on and the water being used is shut off. In any event, it makes for a good rough test and if you are loosing water drawdown you will notice it before the pump short cycles.

In the future, when you open up your place in the spring, you should measure the air pressure in the tank and set it correctly, before you prime the pump and fill up the system. That is what I do with my cottage every year, and yes, the air pressure in the tank is always a little lower in the spring then it was in the fall when I left, so it usually requires a little more air to set things right. Then it is fine all spring, summer and fall.