Water Well - CSV (cycle stop valve) or above ground tank?
#1
05-20-14, 12:33 PM
Water Well - CSV (cycle stop valve) or above ground tank?
I've got a well at ~450 feet, 2 hp pump. 50 gallon pressure tank and it works well enough. I'd like to extend the life of my 2hp pump as much as possible and I know that all of the on/off doesn't do it any good.
In my area, this seems to be solved by adding an above ground tank, typically over 1000 gallons and putting a relatively cheap sump pump into it.
I've also read about the CSV (cycle stop Valve) solution - which, as i see it, would decrease the cycling of the pump assuming that it would otherwise cycle under low-flow conditions....
Opinions/comments?
In my area, this seems to be solved by adding an above ground tank, typically over 1000 gallons and putting a relatively cheap sump pump into it.
I've also read about the CSV (cycle stop Valve) solution - which, as i see it, would decrease the cycling of the pump assuming that it would otherwise cycle under low-flow conditions....
Opinions/comments?
#2
05-20-14, 01:46 PM
Group Moderator
I'd just save your money for a new pump if and when the current one ever dies.
I don't see how a cycle stop valve would help as the pumps gotta turn on when the pressure switch calls for water. Generally large storage tanks are used with a poor producing well to accommodate peak demand times and would be a great expense in both money and maintenance just to reduce the on/off cycles of your submersible pump. When your current pressure tank dies you could replace it with a larger one if you're concerned about the pump cycling on/off too frequently, or you could add another tank now .
I don't see how a cycle stop valve would help as the pumps gotta turn on when the pressure switch calls for water. Generally large storage tanks are used with a poor producing well to accommodate peak demand times and would be a great expense in both money and maintenance just to reduce the on/off cycles of your submersible pump. When your current pressure tank dies you could replace it with a larger one if you're concerned about the pump cycling on/off too frequently, or you could add another tank now .
#3
05-20-14, 07:26 PM
Note, a new pump is about $800, assuming that I'm able to pull it up from 450 feet down and install it myself. I'm not entirely sure I'd be able to do it. When the well was put in, I was charged $1600 for the pump.
I don't exactly understand how the CSV valves work either.. I suppose I should look at it more. I assume (based on your post) that they don't work as advertised? They seem to contain a small pressure tank.
An above ground tank costs under $500. The pump, another $200. If that nets me years out of my underground pump, it's worth it as I can service the above ground pump. I should note that it also allows me to do rain water collection and use that as a primary water source via selection. Our well was high producing when put in, in excess of 20 GPM, but Texas is in serious drought and at 450 feet, there is no easy or inexpensive means to actually test the water level.
I don't exactly understand how the CSV valves work either.. I suppose I should look at it more. I assume (based on your post) that they don't work as advertised? They seem to contain a small pressure tank.
An above ground tank costs under $500. The pump, another $200. If that nets me years out of my underground pump, it's worth it as I can service the above ground pump. I should note that it also allows me to do rain water collection and use that as a primary water source via selection. Our well was high producing when put in, in excess of 20 GPM, but Texas is in serious drought and at 450 feet, there is no easy or inexpensive means to actually test the water level.
#4
05-20-14, 08:22 PM
Group Moderator
I should note that it also allows me to do rain water collection and use that as a primary water source via selection.
An above ground storage tank and booster pump isn't going to save the main pump from anything. The submersible still has to get the water up to the top. An above ground storage tank is used when the well will only produce a couple of gallons a minute. Then you'd have to carefully set up the submersible pump to limit the amount of extracted water during each on period.
What you should be aiming for is a larger pressurized tank or look into one of those CSV's.
Cycle Stop Valves - YouTube
#5
05-21-14, 07:53 AM
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The only other solution I can come up with is placing a timer on your submersible pump and a float switch in the tank. When the tank gets low the switch will turn on the pump and run till the timer shuts off. You would still need a pump and pressure tank for the above ground tank but it you have a rain water supply filling the tank, it will keep the submersible from running because the switch will keep the pump off.
#6
05-21-14, 09:09 AM
Group Moderator
I think you'd be looking at $800-$1'000 to add an above ground tank & pump. In the end your deep well pump will still have to pump the same amount of water. The only thing you would gain is the deep pump starts and stops fewer times. I'm guessing you might extend it's life by 10% (a complete guess on my part) if your current system is working properly. I don't think reducing the on/off cycling is going to provide magical endless life for the pump.
Also consider the current age of your deep pump. Anything you do now to extend it's life only extends what's remaining. Part of it's life is already spent so your benefit or payback for an above ground tank is further reduced. Not to mention that you now have two pumps to maintain.
Where are you located? Is freezing even a remote concern?
In the end I just don't see how you would ever see a payback for an above ground tank in your lifetime.
Also consider the current age of your deep pump. Anything you do now to extend it's life only extends what's remaining. Part of it's life is already spent so your benefit or payback for an above ground tank is further reduced. Not to mention that you now have two pumps to maintain.
Where are you located? Is freezing even a remote concern?
In the end I just don't see how you would ever see a payback for an above ground tank in your lifetime.
#7
05-21-14, 09:45 AM
Something's missing...do you presently have an issue with the pump short-cycling? A large storage tank or a CSV will prolong the pump life by increasing the "on" time & eliminate short-cycling. The CSV does it by throttling the flow when the demand is low so the pump runs nearly continuously as long as water is flowing. They don't "contain a small pressure tank", rather they allow you to use a very small tank since it's the CSV that eliminates the cycling and not the large tank reserve.
#8
05-26-14, 09:10 AM
I'm in Texas. Freezing is not a concern.
I don't have an issue with short cycling (at least as far as I know). I believe the pump control unit has a box that would prevent short cycling. I was just reading about CSVs and was wondering what the objective consensus is on them.
Replacing the pump in a 450 well is going to be a pain when that day comes, so I'd like to extend it as far as possible.
The secondary objective is rain water collection. We've already got the gutters and run-off diverter setup. I just don't have a tank to collect it.
Our well water is substantially hard, almost off the scale. We have appropriate water treatment for that, UV sterilization, etc upstream of the pump. So all of that stays in place.
Adding an external water tank would allow us to collect that rain water. It might also allow us to use the well pump less frequently. It doesn't sound like you guys think it's worth it simply to decrease the cycling of the well water pump, but maybe in conjunction with rain water collection.
And yes, I expect to spend at least $1000.. Probably more like $1500 to get a tank, secondary pressure pump, and float switch.
I don't have an issue with short cycling (at least as far as I know). I believe the pump control unit has a box that would prevent short cycling. I was just reading about CSVs and was wondering what the objective consensus is on them.
Replacing the pump in a 450 well is going to be a pain when that day comes, so I'd like to extend it as far as possible.
The secondary objective is rain water collection. We've already got the gutters and run-off diverter setup. I just don't have a tank to collect it.
Our well water is substantially hard, almost off the scale. We have appropriate water treatment for that, UV sterilization, etc upstream of the pump. So all of that stays in place.
Adding an external water tank would allow us to collect that rain water. It might also allow us to use the well pump less frequently. It doesn't sound like you guys think it's worth it simply to decrease the cycling of the well water pump, but maybe in conjunction with rain water collection.
And yes, I expect to spend at least $1000.. Probably more like $1500 to get a tank, secondary pressure pump, and float switch.
#9
05-26-14, 09:26 AM
Group Moderator
I had asked previously about using rainwater for domestic use. I don't know about where you are but I wouldn't consider here.
#10
05-26-14, 03:05 PM
Yes, I'm considering it for domestic use. We'd have it tested to see, but it's likely better than what we're pulling out of the ground. In the well, we have a lot of dissolved solids, coliform, etc. The same system that treats the well water would be used for the rain water. And final drinking water is delivered via RO system (after UV treatment).
