UPS as battery backup for sump pump
#1
01-25-15, 08:28 AM
UPS as battery backup for sump pump
I have recently moved to a place that has a sump pump and started to obviously take more interest in it, realizing that if it fails - my basement could be flooded.
So as I read about different brands and systems and back-ups and redundant pumps, I never seen anyone use high VA UPS units like the one used for computer servers.
I am not talking about the little ones for personal PCs, but more powerful, delivering few hours of backup for server that draw some serious power.
There are places that sell them refurbished for about $300 and I would imagine that would be easier and cheaper to run than the marine battery and the AC converter.
You simply plug in the UPS unit into an outlet and the sump pump into the UPS and if power fails - the UPS takes over.
Has anyone here tried that?
Do you know how to calculate how much power a sump pump uses ?
So as I read about different brands and systems and back-ups and redundant pumps, I never seen anyone use high VA UPS units like the one used for computer servers.
I am not talking about the little ones for personal PCs, but more powerful, delivering few hours of backup for server that draw some serious power.
There are places that sell them refurbished for about $300 and I would imagine that would be easier and cheaper to run than the marine battery and the AC converter.
You simply plug in the UPS unit into an outlet and the sump pump into the UPS and if power fails - the UPS takes over.
Has anyone here tried that?
Do you know how to calculate how much power a sump pump uses ?
#2
01-25-15, 09:18 AM
Group Moderator
The pump's power requirements are printed on the motor's ID plate.
It can be experimental. Some UPS's don't like supplying the high start up current that a pump like this can require. Many UPS's have a warning on the back to use the UPS only with electronic equipment.
It can be experimental. Some UPS's don't like supplying the high start up current that a pump like this can require. Many UPS's have a warning on the back to use the UPS only with electronic equipment.
#4
01-25-15, 04:50 PM
Super Moderator
it says 9.5Amps at 120V...so that's 1140 Watts
Most UPS systems are rated as VA units...will have to read up on this and see what that means
Most UPS systems are rated as VA units...will have to read up on this and see what that means
Now is this a 12v pump or 120v pump????
#5
01-25-15, 05:16 PM
120V...Zoeller M95
Was thinking first about those marine batteries but wasn't sure how I would install..... would need inverter and some sort of adapter so I could plug in normal 2 prong AC power cable into the back up unit.
I did look at the Zoeller battery back ups but they go for almost $400 and don't think that includes the inverter
Was thinking first about those marine batteries but wasn't sure how I would install..... would need inverter and some sort of adapter so I could plug in normal 2 prong AC power cable into the back up unit.
I did look at the Zoeller battery back ups but they go for almost $400 and don't think that includes the inverter
#7
01-26-15, 06:13 AM
thank you guys for the answers....
I just noticed that Zoeller sells a sump pump that is driven by water from an outlet.
I read the manual on their website but can't figure out where that water goes.....
I see one would install this sump pump inside the pit and instead of power ooutlet, you'd hook it up to a water outlet but where would that water go to ??
Is it just draining into the pit ?
Would the pump have to pump out that water in addition to the ground water ??
I just noticed that Zoeller sells a sump pump that is driven by water from an outlet.
I read the manual on their website but can't figure out where that water goes.....
I see one would install this sump pump inside the pit and instead of power ooutlet, you'd hook it up to a water outlet but where would that water go to ??
Is it just draining into the pit ?
Would the pump have to pump out that water in addition to the ground water ??
#8
01-26-15, 06:23 AM
Super Moderator
Yes, the water powering the pump goes in the same flow as the waste water (or whatever you want to call it).
#9
01-26-15, 06:40 AM
Cool....I am intrigued.
before I start a new topic....anyone here has experience with those pumps?
I think it is a cool idea....for $150 I can install it and never worry about batteries going bad, about power etc...etc....
How much water they use to run the pump?
Are there any shortfalls besides the obvious one that the pump needs to pump waste water AND the "fresh" water?
How reliable are those and can they run for a day in case of power outage ?
Anything you can tell me from real life experience would be appreciated.
For me it would make a lot of sense as I have a cold water pipe running right above the sump pump so I could easily tap in.
Thanks!
before I start a new topic....anyone here has experience with those pumps?
I think it is a cool idea....for $150 I can install it and never worry about batteries going bad, about power etc...etc....
How much water they use to run the pump?
Are there any shortfalls besides the obvious one that the pump needs to pump waste water AND the "fresh" water?
How reliable are those and can they run for a day in case of power outage ?
Anything you can tell me from real life experience would be appreciated.
For me it would make a lot of sense as I have a cold water pipe running right above the sump pump so I could easily tap in.
Thanks!
#10
01-26-15, 06:50 AM
Super Moderator
Have to wait for one of the Pro's for those answers.
I don't know if they work on the same principals, but in the Navy we had eductors. You hooked a fire hose to one side and Bernoulli effect pulled out the water from a flooded area. Of course that was much higher pressure and flow rates.
I don't know how the water powered sump pumps work. That's not an issue where I live.
I don't know if they work on the same principals, but in the Navy we had eductors. You hooked a fire hose to one side and Bernoulli effect pulled out the water from a flooded area. Of course that was much higher pressure and flow rates.
I don't know how the water powered sump pumps work. That's not an issue where I live.
#11
01-26-15, 07:59 AM
Super Moderator
Those water powered pumps use 2-3 gallons for every 1 gallon pumped out.. So if your water cost is high and your basement gets flooded you may have a high water bill when all is said and done...
The libertys pump 2 gallons out for every one used..
I install these..
Liberty Pumps : Back Up Sump Pumps
The libertys pump 2 gallons out for every one used..
I install these..
Liberty Pumps : Back Up Sump Pumps
#12
01-26-15, 08:23 AM
2-3 gallons used for every 1 gallon pumped out??
How is that possible ?? You'd get your sump pit overflowed in one cycle as more water comes in than it is pumped out.
I have Zoeller M95 as the primary pump....but looking for options for that one day when the power goes out or the pump just stops working.
As per my questions above I am just exploring various technologies for back up system only
How is that possible ?? You'd get your sump pit overflowed in one cycle as more water comes in than it is pumped out.
I have Zoeller M95 as the primary pump....but looking for options for that one day when the power goes out or the pump just stops working.
As per my questions above I am just exploring various technologies for back up system only
#13
01-26-15, 08:49 AM
Super Moderator
How is that possible ?? You'd get your sump pit overflowed in one cycle as more water comes in than it is pumped out.
Water only moves the pump impeller to suck the water out of the pit. The pit water and house water exit out the drain line, where ever you may have it pipe outside ...
Im not a fan of zoeller..
#15
01-30-15, 05:43 AM
have no idea why not all are fans of zoeller pumps as they are the standard of the bsmt wtrproofing trade,,, we use 5 or 6 per wk ( ebay - $ 130 incl shipping ) 
i do like the wtr-powered backup pump,,, 12v batteries are finite in power & municipal wtr bills pale in comparison to replacing wtr-damaged bsmt stuff
have you considered a b/u generator ?
i do like the wtr-powered backup pump,,, 12v batteries are finite in power & municipal wtr bills pale in comparison to replacing wtr-damaged bsmt stuff
have you considered a b/u generator ?
#16
02-01-15, 06:03 PM
thanks for the reply.... I am currently exploring all types of systems to ensure I always have something pumping the water out of the sump pit.
Generator is on my list...but I am leaning toward the water driven sump pump as a back up.
This way I will be sure that regardless if the primary pump fails or if power is out - I am still protected.
Generator would help only with power issues...I still need a second pump...so may as well go for the water powered pump..... just want to make sure I get the good unit and that they work well as back ups.
Generator is on my list...but I am leaning toward the water driven sump pump as a back up.
This way I will be sure that regardless if the primary pump fails or if power is out - I am still protected.
Generator would help only with power issues...I still need a second pump...so may as well go for the water powered pump..... just want to make sure I get the good unit and that they work well as back ups.
#17
02-02-15, 04:05 AM
Super Moderator
have no idea why not all are fans of zoeller pumps as they are the standard of the bsmt wtrproofing trade,,, we use 5 or 6 per wk
Liberty has a 3 year warranty across the board... Its all I use and install 30 plus years.
I personally will never install a zoeller product...
#19
02-04-15, 06:56 PM
Hope somebody can clarify one item for me:
Are the water powered pumps always "on" and only start using the water and pumping from the pit when the floater activates them or would I need to come down to my basement and turn the water on in order to start the pump??
was really moving toward water powered pump for my back up system but realized .... if I am not home when my primary pumps stops working (regardless of reason) - I won't be there to turn the water on for the back up pump...so unless there is some sort of self - activating valve....this isn't going to work for me as a back up.
Are the water powered pumps always "on" and only start using the water and pumping from the pit when the floater activates them or would I need to come down to my basement and turn the water on in order to start the pump??
was really moving toward water powered pump for my back up system but realized .... if I am not home when my primary pumps stops working (regardless of reason) - I won't be there to turn the water on for the back up pump...so unless there is some sort of self - activating valve....this isn't going to work for me as a back up.
#20
02-04-15, 07:00 PM
Super Moderator
Are the water powered pumps always "on" and only start using the water and pumping from the pit when the floater activates them or would I need to come down to my basement and turn the water on in order to start the pump??
#22
02-05-15, 05:52 PM
Super Moderator
If water is expensive in your area your water bill will be high if you have a long power outage...( And rely on the sump..)
But whats the worst of two evils. High water bill or basement gut and renovation???
IMO they are worth it...
But whats the worst of two evils. High water bill or basement gut and renovation???
IMO they are worth it...
#23
02-07-15, 12:29 PM
Agreed lawrosa.
Well...seems I have one more question..... I am looking at the installation instruction and it says that I must NOT connect the drain line from this pump to the primary drain line...
It says I must run separate 1 1/2 inch pipe all the way out to the curb....WHY ???
I really don't see the reason and I really would prefer to join the two drain pipes about 30 inches from the respective pumps and then have single pipe going out of the house.
Well...seems I have one more question..... I am looking at the installation instruction and it says that I must NOT connect the drain line from this pump to the primary drain line...
It says I must run separate 1 1/2 inch pipe all the way out to the curb....WHY ???
I really don't see the reason and I really would prefer to join the two drain pipes about 30 inches from the respective pumps and then have single pipe going out of the house.
#25
02-07-15, 03:48 PM
thanks stadry - I assume this vertical ck valve is in addition to the horizontal ck valve I already have right above my primary sump pump ?
I should not remove that one....right ?
by the way....the connection would be made using a wye connector....I assume the ck valve should be put right after the connection - once the two discharge runs become single
I should not remove that one....right ?
by the way....the connection would be made using a wye connector....I assume the ck valve should be put right after the connection - once the two discharge runs become single
#26
02-07-15, 03:59 PM
Super Moderator
They state this because then dont want the sump pump water pumping back into the water powered pump and contaminating the drinking water...
probably most codes would require something like a watts 9d on the water line to the water powered pump...
9D Dual Check Valves with Intermediate Atmospheric Vent, Dual Checks / Dual Checks with Atmospheric Vent, Backflow Prevention - Watts
probably most codes would require something like a watts 9d on the water line to the water powered pump...
9D Dual Check Valves with Intermediate Atmospheric Vent, Dual Checks / Dual Checks with Atmospheric Vent, Backflow Prevention - Watts
#27
02-07-15, 06:32 PM
oh man...now I see it in the installation manual.
Anyone knows if NJ code requires RPZ backflow preventer ?
I looked via Google but couldn't find the full text nj plumbing code.
if I can get away with 9D or even regular ck valve that would be great.
RP backflow valve will make this project not feasible.... those valves are over $200.... suddenly the battery backup pump seems more attractive
Anyone knows if NJ code requires RPZ backflow preventer ?
I looked via Google but couldn't find the full text nj plumbing code.
if I can get away with 9D or even regular ck valve that would be great.
RP backflow valve will make this project not feasible.... those valves are over $200.... suddenly the battery backup pump seems more attractive
#28
02-07-15, 07:02 PM
Super Moderator
I would install a watts 9 d..
Are you getting this inspected? You could call your local autority and ask..
Think about the situation.. If you lost water pressure in the home and the check valve failed??? Pump water can get back into your drinking lines..
Are you getting this inspected? You could call your local autority and ask..
Think about the situation.. If you lost water pressure in the home and the check valve failed??? Pump water can get back into your drinking lines..
