Ok, just got my first full water bill from the city and there's no sewer fee. I'm not complaining since that's normally the largest part of the bill.

Sent an email to the property manager, but don't expect much from them. Nothing at the County Assessor site either. It just seems like too small a lot for septic. The back is maybe 15' from house to block wall (approx 50' wide), one side is maybe 12" and the other only about 8' to the neighbors. I don't see any vents, caps or covers like I'd expect (of course its been almost 40 years since I lived in a house on septic). I'm expecting a cap or cover where the tank is then a relatively large leach field. Are urban systems different than rural?

The place was built in 2000 in a development area. It's about 1100sf, 3 bedroom, 2 bath. So it could probably house 4-5 people normally.

Maybe I should look in the street for manholes? Any other clues I can try?

 

Bring in a septic/sewer contractor with a drain snake with wireless electronic transmitter. They will run the snake down a cleanout or a toilet and use an above ground electronic sensor to find out where the main drain goes.

The main drain might indeed be hooked up to the city sewer in which case the trace will go out into the street.

If there is a septic tank the snake will fall into the tank and as traced will seem to stop somewhere in the back yard. The snake will not find its way to the septic tank outlet. Then you can dig up the area to find the hatches.

If you just bought the property and it has a septic tank in unknown condition, you should have the septic tank pumped out immediately.

Alternative -- Go to your city building inspection department to look at the building and plot plan for your house. This should show whether you have a septic tank system. But sometimes their diagram does not show the location of the septic tank that accurately.

 

Oh no Allan, this is a rental I'm in. I don't really care what it is as long as it works. More curiosity than anything I guess.

 

Both urban and rural septic tank systems usually do not have the caps or any other part exposed except possibly a vertical vent pipe at the far end of the leach field. You have to dig up the lawn.

 

You could have a community septic or waste system. Your wast might not go to the city sewer but it could go to a large community septic system. It's common around here with rural trailer park and work camps.

You could look for manholes in your area. You can also see if your county is on GIS (type in your county name and "GIS" in Google) and search for your property. The GIS map will show the municipal border and the tax and zoning information is also usually available which might describe any septic system.

 

If your neighborhood had a community septic tank system then your main drain line would be hooked up in the same manner as hooking up to a public sewer. The septic tank would be larger and more likely to have exposed hatches (caps), but it may be some distance from your home.

This is also conceivable but I do not know of any examples. Each home has its own septic tank but the septic tank outlets connect to a common main line in turn going to a community leach field some distance away or partially occupying your lot. This can have problems because one homeowner might not have his septic tank pumped out regularly and sludge/grease comes out and fouls the common leach field. A small common grease trap (aka single family home sized septic tank immediately preceding the common leach field) might prevent this problem.

 

I don't think it's any sort of community system. This isn't a planned development or condo type thing. Just a bunch of different builders on small lots during the boom time here. It's within city limits but the rules have changed on septic/sewer. Since the City didn't have the money to run sewer everywhere, many places were built with septic. They didn't even put sidewalks or curbs everywhere. My side of the street has asphalt, then 10 ft of gravel, then the driveways. The other side has curbs and sidewalks. The City didn't have a rule about contractors required to do it, so now it falls on the homeowners (most of which are out of state) to vote for it. Oh sure, they'll vote to pay $10-12K out of pocket for curbs.

They are only getting around to changing it now that they built a new sewer plant. If you build new, you have to connect to sewer if it's within 500ft of a main line. If your septic fails and you are within 200ft (I think) you have to connect. That would be like $20K in a recent example around here. It's kinda messed up, if you have to go through 5 other peoples property, they don't have to hook up and you pay it all. If they hook up later, you get a percentage back, but it could be years down the road.

We'll see what the management company says, and then the City permits office would be next.

 

Maybe you just have a cesspool? They are common in much of Costa Rica and every house has had one, usually under the carport concrete slab. They put in the cesspool and then build the house on top so it consumes no space.

 

Got a reply back from the PM Co. Apparently it's septic, per the last sales listing.

I don't think we have any cesspools around here PD. It's mostly sand soil so I'm sure it drains quickly, and it's not really my concern anyway. As long as the stuff goes down, that's all I care about. I do wish that the toilets had been replaced. Original 1.6 gal type Eljer contractor grade which are very inefficient as well as only being about 13" to the seat. I feel like I'm squatting out in the woods.

 

Recently I have seen very small drain fields put in very small areas, so it can be done.
See my post here:
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/we...4662-what.html
with pictures on one.

 

They also make septic systems consisting of a septic tank followed by a cesspool instead of a leach field. These are legal in many places where (plain) cesspools are not legal.

It works the same way. The (mostly) particulate free grease free effluent properly soaks into the ground. The same problems, namely clogging and rendering impermeable of the ground where the effluent soaks into as a result of errant grease and sludge and also biomat, affect this system as affects a system with leach field.

The more permeable the soil, the smaller a leach field you can get away with.

 

Well, I'm pretty much a DA. Just outside the side patio are two 4" pipes that I'm sure are for the septic. Never would have asked the question if they hadn't been overgrown with weeds and I'd seen them. If I was on sewer, they would have been in the front somewhere most likely. Also noticed no manholes on the street, so obviously it's not City.

Well, if it starts backing up, at least I know not to call the City for a fix.

 

Vic, decades ago I rented a house that a friend moved in to it a year or so after I moved out. My biggest complaint with that place was the high sewer bill. I went to visit my friend and saw the whole yard tore up - he said the septic system failed and the landlord was installing a new one

 

Yeah, that's why I asked here and messaged the PM. The last thing I wanted was for the City to come back in a year and say "We made a mistake, pay us $700 or we'll turn off your water".

Gotta say, I do like a $35 water and sanitation bill vs the almost $90 I was paying before. Amazing how a single guy can use so much less water. Of course, I don't give a hoot if the rose bushes die either.

Did you try to get a refund of any sort from the provider Mark?

 

I'm missing something . . . . why would someone replace a septic system is they are on municipal sewage (as evidenced by the high sewer bill) ?

Did they opt out of municipal sewage . . . . which is generally not possible most places ?

 

Vermont, I think what Mark was saying was that he was mischarged by the provider. They had his listed as on sewer when in fact he was not. Most just charge based on water usage, so no way to really tell until there's a drain issue.

I've got City water as do almost all in the municipal area, but no sewer.

 

I did inquire about a refund but they said I needed to produce the receipts showing I paid it ... and I had long since trashed them. I assume the only reason they were allowed to replace the septic system rather than hook up to the city sewer was the city sewer didn't go out that far. But that was back in the early 70's and I'm not sure what the rules were back then.

 

The people across the street finally hooked up 45 years late. The family of six had bought the house from a couple who were hardly ever there and when they tried to use the septic tank it sort of didn't work so well for six people.

They were moaning and groaning to me about the $2,000 hookup fee and I said they should check to see if the 1970 special assessment didn't pay that fee off because the papers I had on my house seemed to indicate that everyone got assessed whether they hooked up or not.

After prodding, the city clerk's office found the assessment and the paid receipt for it from 1970.

Moral of the story is to talk to your neighbors.

 

Thanks for the clarification !

I've sold quite a few houses that have an alternative water source, and people are tempted to utilize some of that water for their toilets, lawns, and car washing . . . . maybe more.

This way, they get a discount on their sewage because only the incoming water is metered, and they don't distinguish between the ways it's used, or whether it ever goes to the waste water treatment facility.

 

Similar here Vermont. If you have a meter installed just for irrigation, you don't pay a sewer charge for that water. Of course you still pay all the darn fees and tax, so it rarely is economical unless you have a huge property or garden.

Back in VA you payed a much lower rate and it offset the cost of the second meter in a very short time.

 

Count your blessings! My December water and sewer bill was $180.07. Broken down as water: $35.67, water tax-city: $3.62, sewer: $134.08, sewer tax-city: $6.70. Water consumed: 600 cubic feet or about 4,488 gallons for two months service.

My sewer bill is a flat rate and I CAN'T lower it even if I use no water at all.

 

My town just filed a lien on my house for failure to pay my $86 sewer bill. Besides the unbelievable heavy handed tactics to collect $86, no attempt whatsoever to notify or verify the bill, the lien has been filed and I now owe over $100.

I wish I could use Paul Harvey's voice. Now the rest of the story. You should have seen the confusion when I asked them what I was missing, as I showed them my last sewer bill with a $28 credit balance. They couldn't figure out what happened as their computer had the exact same credit balance right next to the lien statement.

The next couple of days will be interesting, I'm not a happy camper. My bottom line will go beyond correcting that lien to include correcting their process which they claimed was required by law.

Bud

 

Releasing a lien that turned out to have been filed in error and cancelling a charge that turned out to be erroneous is really a no-brainer. They can make out the release and file it with the registry of deeds or bureau of conveyances without your being present. Also record the erroneous invoice as paid without putting the corresponding money in the till.

(changes made) Alternatively a heart to heart talk with the mayor may get him to sign an executive order that makes the problem go away from your point of view.

 

The property tax system in my town is screwed especially with trailers valued for $600. When a trailer depreciates $600 is the lowest value they will apply for a working trailer so it happens to be a common number. The value will drop for years until it hits $600 where the computer bumps it up to $6'000 and charges the tax on that amount. I'm convinced it's a tactic to get more money hoping some won't notice. They will reduce it but it takes a trip in person to the tax office then carry that document to the DMV who is responsible for collecting vehicle property taxes. At best it takes an hour of your time during business hours. No big deal since none of us actually have jobs or anything else to do during the day.

 

Because you guys appear to be having fun with this topic, I want to share this related story. I'm a Real Estate Broker and have my own well and septic system, so I'm not directly affected by these matters of water and sewer charges . . . . but I do have to deal with explaining them frequently. Put this in the category of "THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I !"

In a nearby community, they have metered water, and charge for the sewer based on the incoming water that's consumed. The community has had problems over the past few decades with leaking water mains, and the sanitary sewer being inundated by the storm sewer, in addition to the underground leakage of their water supply lines.

They have been cited several times for polluting a local river when the sanitary sewer fails to be contained and discharges into the storm sewer, and ultimately the river. The original engineering firm(s) have since been put out of business and repairs have had to be made using multiple bond issues . . . . all of which has made the cost of water and sewer outrageous and severely damaged property values (except for the un-suspecting newcomers).

To escape these exorbitant water and sewer costs, one smart homeowner decided to drill a well on his small village lot, and avoid the excessive bills. He would still be charged a minimum monthly amount of roughly $65.00 . . . . and because it is not measured, he assumed he would have unlimited sewage.

That sounded good, and he shelled out a few thousand dollars for the well. The drilling resulted in a well that was about 300'deep, but produced over 100 gallons per minute . . . . it was a man-made artesian, and no pump was required. As a matter of fact, it could not be restrained.

Water from the well rolled down the hill behind the house, thoroughly undermining a set of railroad tracks on its way to Main Street. Water flooded the basements of at least three other residences, and then entered the ground level of a Bank where they kept the safety deposit boxes.

As it was Winter, the unrestrained water then flowed out into Main Street where it immediately froze, and created a solid patch of ice making a very serious traffic hazard.

After a few months, they called in someone akin to Red Adair to finally stop this gusher. Then the Insurance companies began haggling over who would ultimately pay for all of this damage: the Home Owners Insurance, the Well Driller, the Town/Village, the RailRoad . . . . it was quite a mess. I don't know the details of the final settlement; it was finally settled out of Court.

They no longer allow wells to be drilled around here in areas already serviced by municipal water and sewage systems . . . . but it was fun while it lasted !

 

Now that is a wild story glad it wasn't me