Hey fellow DIYer's.

I'm not familiar with water wells and the one out here was installed before I moved out, so bare with me.

System:
400 FT well
Square D pump Switch
Q120V galvanized tank
- water softener tank and two tanks next to it
- The tank has a pressure gauge on it, but i'm not sure its very accurate and I CANNOT find a valve anywhere to check the pressure "manually".


Anyway, here are the obvious symptoms:
- No water pressure. If I run a hose, the hose runs fine. BUT, the water pressure everywhere else becomes almost non-existent. Same if someone is showering.
- Prior to all this, the water pressure would fluctuate during showers.
- Frankly, the water pressure has never been good since I moved out here. But its gotten much worse over the years.


Results of examination and testing:
- Pressure switch is getting power.
- The pressure gauge on the tank has a slight drip leak.
- pressure in tank idles at around 50psi, drops QUICKLY to 20psi when a hose is on. Drops to 0psi when two hoses are on.
- I drained the tank. Some water came out, but not much. Took about 2 minutes then stopped with little to no water pressure.
- When closing the "drain valve", the switch kicks the pump on, the gauge speeds to 70psi QUICKLY, and the switch shuts off.
- Crappy water pressure resumes as normal.


Possible points of interest:
- The pump switch wasnt kicking on at all when I first drained the tank (which only took about 2 min and pressure was "meh").
- I manually nudged the switch to turn the pump on and it seemed to not do much very much. The pressure in the tank was still about 20psi and didnt climb at all. As soon as I closed the drain valve, the tank gauge spikes up to 70psi quickly and the pressure switch shuts off.
- The pressure switch now seems to be atleast alive, but not doing much.

I'm baffled.

 

Welcome to the forums! It may take a while and a few questions, so bear with us. On top of your pressure tank is a Schraeder valve. With the tank empty you can test the pressure in the tank with a common tire gauge. It should read 2 lbs lower than the cut in pressure on the switch. If it is different, you either add or subtract air via the valve until it reaches that pressure. Is there anyway to bypass the water softener and "other" tanks? Has the softener media ever been cleaned? Just getting a starting place.

 

"Q120V galvanized tank"

I think this tank was made by Quick Tanks? There usually won't be a shraeder valve on a galvanized tank unless someone added one later to add air with a bicycle pump.

Most of the info you will read here has nothing to do with galvanized tanks, so please ignore it. The whole 2 pound thing and what-not will just get you confused.

I wrote a section on how to reset galvanized tanks in the sticky and that's what you need to do. You might want to replace the leaky gauge while you are at it. They are not very expensive at the hardware store. You can remove the gauge when you crack a seal, which you will have to do anyway to properly drain the tank.

What happen in a galvanized tank is that air is absorbed by the water since they are not separated like they are in more modern style tanks. There is nothing wrong with a galvanized tank and many large businesses and water utilities use them, but they are different.

 

Vey is right. Went right over my head on the galvanized tank. Do the resetting of the galvanized tank per the sticky, or replace it and welcome your system to the 21st century. Otherwise you may be doing this on a periodic basis. Residential galvanized tanks are definitely dated. The commercial ones do the job just fine, but have the same absorption problems.

 

When draining a galvanized tank, just opening the valve at the bottom and letting the water out won't do the trick. When you do that, you create a vacuum in the tank, retaining water. You have to break the seal to let the vacuum release and the rest of the water comes out.

The one major advantage that galvanized tanks have over bladder or diaphragm tanks is there are no moving parts to wear out.

 

Drained it. Closed valve. Set power. Filling it up as I post this.

Two things. One, the water never stopped draining. I heard all the gurgling in the tank for about 20 minutes. Then that stopped but the water kept flowing. A "natural pressure" aquifer I guess?

Second.

Filling it up now. But unlike in the past, i hear no gurgling at all. Its silent (I hear the motor though). The psi is rising slowly.

 

Ok. Update. Pressure is now good (enough) when running multiple taps etc. Which as of lately, is new.. So thats good.

The cutoff is at 50psi and 70psi (which i believe is too high).

Heres a noob question. Is the water pressure supposed to be consistent regardless of open faucets etc? Or is it normal for it to decrease (a little, nothing dramatic) if two people are showering?

I would think so since the psi naturally drops when in use.

 

If your house was properly piped with 3/4" main trunk lines with 1/2" turn ups at the applications, then you will experience less fluctuations in water pressure. You haven't said, I don't think, but what type supply pipe do you have? Galvanized, copper, CPVC, PEX??

Which is the cut off pressure? 50 or 70? Or is cut in at 50 and cut off at 70? If so that is too high a cut in pressure. Should be somewhere in the 30# range, with cut out at about 60. Normally the switches are preset, but yours may have been adjusted out of parameters.

 

Sorry, cut in is 50 and cut off is 70

the piping is pvc afaik

 

Did you read the sticky yet? here is a link.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/we...well-info.html

It doesn't sound as though you did. I don't think you have drained the tank properly and until you do, things will be "weird." Weird on and offs and weird PSIs are par for the course when a tank gets out of whack. It can take quite a while to get all the water out when air is being sucked in through a small hole -- but you have to wait and get it all out.

In the same sticky where I explain how to properly drain the tank and reset it, further down is an explanation of a correct pump cycle.

In the cycle, after the water has been exhausted from the tank, the only pressure and volume you will get is from the pump. Whatever the pump can produce, that is all you will get until the demand is stopped.

I urge you to properly reset the tank before you go any further. Things may look as though they are getting better, but they never will until you go through the whole procedure correctly.

 

Yeah I read it. The only slip up was kicking it back on when it was still lightly draining.

Doing it again now until the hose produces nothing.

 

When I power on and fill the tank back.....should I open the valve to the whole house before powering it back on or keep it closed and open it after the cut off?

It says to do it last with a bladder tank.

 

With a non-bladder tank (typical galvanized pressure tank) after you are sure all the water is drained out, close all the faucets, and pressurize the tank to the usual 2 PSI below pump turn on (cut in) pressure. Now turn on the pump and the system will balance itself.

 

If you have a whole house water valve after the pressure tank, close that while resetting the tank, Open that after the pump has done its first cycle and cut off.

 

After the pump has cut off, the pressure is supposed to go down as you use water. When the pressure gets down to cut in pressure the pump should start again.

The smaller the spread between pump cut in and cut out pressures, the more often the pump will run (less desirable). Meanwhile if the spread between pump cut in and cut out pressures is very large then you will feel the pressure getting less before the pump starts.

Usually it is suggested that pump cut in be 2/3 of pump cut out pressure.

 

But how do you pressurize it without a schrader valve? There isnt one anywhere on the tank or any of the surrounding pipes afaik.

 

Ok did some research. According to Vey's old posts there is no real way to add pressure with an air pump etc. The method in the sticky of just draining then filling seems to be fine to do.

Anyway, its performing better than it was before for sure. Running a hose and a shower seems possible again. Though its still not 100%. Ive seen it have excellent pressure before.

The filter was recently replaced so im not sure thats the issue.

 

When you refill it, nothing is supposed to open. Pressure builds up by itself as the mater compresses the air. If you draw water while filling the first time, then you will end up with too much air.

Some people add schrader valves to add air, but to do that properly takes a lot more skill than most people have. The reason being is that there is no sightglass to see how much water is in there (tapping isn't accurate).

There is no need to fiddle with the 2 pounds, so please ignore that advice. I'm sure that regular readers are very confused by now, but honestly, this is so much simpler than the bladder tanks.

1. drain the tank fully, which means cracking a seal either by removing the gauge or the tube that goes to the pressure switch or any other plug that can be removed -- for the same reason as putting two holes in the top of a can so you don't get "glugs" when pouring it out.
2. reseal the tank and leave it sealed until you are done.
3. turn on the pump and let it fill up until the pressure switch turns the pump off.

Any fiddling to adjust the pressure should be done to the pressure switch, not the tank.

How often do you have to do this? Eh, maybe every other year or so. Some people do it every year on a particular date and they drain the electric hot water at the same time, too so they don't forget to do both and mommy doesn't get to upset about no water. I always try to do these things while my wife isn't around, to reduce the complaining.

You will know when to do it because the pump will be short cycling. The tank has become water logged.

 

Ok it looks like we're back at square one.

While running a hose today for about 30 min today, I asked my wife to check the psi on the tank. It was at 15.

So. Later while the pump was around 60psi I did a test. To rule out the possibility of leaks on the property etc, I closed off everything AFTER the tank and opened the drain hose.

With the pump on and only the drain hose open, the pressure was dropping quick. There was no way it was going to keep up. I stopped it once it got down to 40?psi. Took about 45 seconds.

It looks like the issue is between the tank and pump. All that seems to be left there is the "check valve" and the well/pump.

Is it possible the check valve is the issue? I may take it off tomorrow and see how much water the pump is truly pushing out.

I really, really hope its not the pump.

 

Tested again.

At 60psi. Ran a single hose for maybe 4 min. Psi went down to 30 (even though pump kicked on at 50) . Pump took 7-8 min to get back to 60 from 30 once hose was shut off.

For the record, I am not the land owner, but I am "taking over" to hopefully resolve many long-term issues that were left unattended. The pump switch obviously is off and needs to be replaced anyway. The elements have gotten the best of it.

 

There are lots of folks that have low output wells. What they have to do is have a tank large enough to handle a shower (not two) OR filling a tub for a load of clothes, and then let the tank fill up and recover.

It sounds to me like you expect city water service from a well and that is not realistic.

Most pressure switches are set for 40/60 or 30/50. Lower pressure produces more water and allows more water in the tank. I'm going to estimate that a 120 gallon tank would hold about 50 gallons of water at 60 PSI and 60-70 at 50 PSI.

 

Replaced the pressure gauge and pump switch. Needed to be done anyway.

Long story short, the pump is the culprit as feared. The well guys came out, opened the well, and the water flow was dismal.

Its all 15 years old, so I guess we cant complain too much. New one coming in.

Thanks for the help guys, I learned quite a few things.