A few questions before I call the well guy...


  #1  
Old 02-03-16, 07:20 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 10
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
A few questions before I call the well guy...

I've been noticing lower pressure in my plumbing. I have a 2.5 bath house.

I had to replace the gauge near the well switch. I think my well pump is finally going. If I remember correctly I had it replaced about 18 years ago.

Number 1 tell tale... I ran the regen on my PH conditioner. That basically opens up a 1/2 inch line full bore. After about a minute or so I heard the well pump kick on (I heard the switch). I have a 40-60 switch. I noticed it wasn't really keeping up (or adding any pressure, just sitting around the 40lbs. Then all of a sudden (without a click) you could tell the pump quit. Pressure dropped straight to 0. Took about a minute or so then you could see the pump kicked back on. Overheat? This repeats itself every few minutes. On lower loads I think it just limps by (shower, sink), but if you start loading it up it goes to full failure.

Well pump?

Should I amp probe it? Would would be good/bad values?

Anything else I could/should consider before biting the bullet? I've seen the process of changing the pump which in my case involves pulling about 175feet of poly. We've got snow on the ground and I'm not looking forward to paying for such a task, but it appears it may be inevitable. Any other ideas before I get out my checkbook?

Thanks,

Roveer
 
  #2  
Old 02-03-16, 11:26 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,984
Received 79 Upvotes on 71 Posts
Sound like the bladder is collapsing on itself.. This would dictate too much air in the well tank..

Did you do anything to the tank recently?

Shut off well pump power, open a faucet and relieve all pressure, and drain the well tank from the drain valve..

Check the pressure at the shrader valve...

Let us know.. We can guide you further..

( Oh also after you check the air and energize the system again, try putting all filtration and media appliances in by pass mode...) Just to test
 
  #3  
Old 02-03-16, 05:23 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 10
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Forgot to mention.

Well X-Troll is new as of last year. At static pressure its set to 38 lbs (2lbs less than cut-in pressure). Was one of the first things I checked.
 
  #4  
Old 02-03-16, 05:45 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,984
Received 79 Upvotes on 71 Posts
At static pressure its set to 38 lbs
Was it tested with tank drained?

38 may be too close or above your actual cut in psi. Even though its a 40 60 switch the cut in can be less... I usually give more leeway for pump lag.. I set the pressures to 35 or so..


Anytime in my experience that the water is running and the tank emptys and the flow works off the pump only........If the psi in the tank is too high then the bladder will collapse just before the pump kicks on.. You will then get 0 psi situation and no water. After the pump starts the pressure will slowly build up again.. ( The bladder collapsing blocks the outlet and why there is a brief 0 psi situation...)
 
  #5  
Old 02-03-16, 08:11 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 10
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thanks for your reply.

When I said static I meant tank drained. I'm going to lower it to 35 just to see what happens. I'm expecting even lower pressure, but you never know.
 
  #6  
Old 02-03-16, 08:18 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,984
Received 79 Upvotes on 71 Posts
I've been noticing lower pressure in my plumbing.
You could have multiple issues.

After you lower pressure post results...

After put all filters on bypass too to see if your media is clogged..

Let us know..

There is a well test procedure too to check the windings. I will find that.. You have a control box on the wall right?

How many wires to the pump?
 
  #7  
Old 02-03-16, 08:40 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 10
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
OK, I lower the tank to 35lbs.

An observation. After I dropped the pressure in the tank and flipped the pump back on it started to build pressure in the system, the pump cycled 3 times before it hit the high cut-off. First at 40 lbs, then at about 48 and finally at about 55. The pressure switch finally shut it off at 60.

When I say cycled, the pump shut off, then about a minute later it came back on. I know this because I get a slight rattle when its pumping so I know when its running. When it comes back on I get a quick dim in the lights as well. None of this was caused by the pressure switch which finally shut it off when it hit 60 lbs.

I think I've got a dying pump and there's not much I can do about it unless you think differently.

Roveer
 
  #8  
Old 02-03-16, 08:52 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,984
Received 79 Upvotes on 71 Posts
  #9  
Old 02-03-16, 09:48 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 10
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Hhmm. Control Box. Haven't seen anything that remotely looks like a control box. Got the well head outside, Poly pipe coming in through the wall, a 2nd smaller poly pipe coming in along with the larger water supply and it goes right into the pressure switch. Is it possible that I don't have one and it's all contained in the pump? Mine is definitely at the end of the poly 175' down.

---[EDIT]---

There is a single gang box out on the well head. Is it possible there are components in there? I guess I'll take a look tomorrow. It's half buried in leaves. Possible that if it's just a splice that freshening up the splice might improve things? I've had problems over time with splices in wire nuts going bad.


Roveer
 

Last edited by Roveer; 02-03-16 at 10:33 PM.
  #10  
Old 02-04-16, 03:04 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,984
Received 79 Upvotes on 71 Posts
Look at this too..

4” Submersible Well Pump Troubleshooting


Troubleshooting Residential Submersible Pump Systems | Practical tips for applying job-specific troubleshooting techniques to your next submersible pump project

I dont think the control box would be outside.. The control box has the start capacitors. The wires from the pressure switch should go to it..

If you dont have one then you may have a self starting pump... I find info on that for testing...


How many wires are going from house to pump?
 
  #11  
Old 02-04-16, 06:43 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 10
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
2 Wires going from pressure switch to pump. Red & Black.
 
  #12  
Old 02-04-16, 07:07 AM
V
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North East Kingdom of Vermont
Posts: 2,195
Upvotes: 0
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
Is it true that you can only use water while the pump is actively running, and that as soon as the pump stops, the pressure rapidly dissipates ?

It just seems that the pump is dong its job; but the foot valve isn't holding the pressure that the pump has worked to create.

Just my 2
 
  #13  
Old 02-04-16, 07:51 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 10
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I don't lose presure after the pump stops running. If it reaches 60 lbs and there is no use it just sits there holding pressure.

The best and simplest explanation to the problem is the pump keeps shutting off when it should be running to provide water.

2 Examples that I've seen over the past 4 days.

1. Set my PH conditioner to regen and watched pump. Regen opens a fairly large "drain" right there in the well room for 15 minutes. Watched pressure go from 60 down to 40 then the pressure switch kicked in and turned on the pump. Pump ran for about a minute (never building much over 40 lbs) then kicked off (not pressure switch, but pump. Assuming overheat?) then it would cycle every minute or so.

2. Just building up from 0 lbs to 60. I drained down the system to reset air in my air tank and after flipping well back on it would only run for a minute or two before kicking off (again, no pressure switch, but probably overheat). Kicked off at 40 lbs then back on a minute or two later, kicked off at 48 lbs, back on, kicked off at 55 lbs, back on then finally pressure switch shut it off at 60 lbs.

Based on info from lawrosa I'm going to check electrical connections as low voltage can cause pump to not pump properly, overheat, shut down.

I do have 1 suspected splice right at the well head in an all weather box. Wouldn't it be so nice if I freshened that splice and all my problems went away. Not going to happen. I'm going to see 200' of poly coming out of the ground and a new pump. But I can dream.

One other observation. At the beginning of my my tank tee in the transition from the poly to the T I have what I believe is a backflow preventer? Slightly larger fitting. I've heard that these things eventually go bad. Is it possible that this is causing an obstruction and causing my pump to struggle and overheat?

I'd do just about anything to avoid having to pull the pump that's why I'm chasing down all these other things. Also If I do have to put in a new pump I don't want to leave anything that might be a problem and start to damage new equipment. That would just piss me off to no end.

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. Luckily the snow melted down here in NJ over the past few days and I can see my well head again. Going to go after that electric splice as soon as I can.

Roveer
 
  #14  
Old 02-08-16, 09:21 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 10
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I think I have to call it...

I had my electrician stop by to make sure all of my wiring/breakers were in order.

2 Observations:

1. He checked continuity on the wires leading out to the pump. He found they were closed. Said that is not supposed to be.

2. He amp probed both 120 lines off the breaker and found them both pulling 18 amps, 21+ at startup.

I'm led to believe these two things indicate its time to change the pump.

Comments? Thanks.

Roveer
 
  #15  
Old 02-08-16, 06:33 PM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 13,753
Received 672 Upvotes on 570 Posts
I had a well pump in a similar fashion. That pump was also a 2 wire (plus ground) pump without the control box. I put a clamp on meter and found the pump was not stopping but locking up. Amps jumped to about 26 and you could still hear the pump hum.

I think you can stick a fork in it. Just remember to check your pressure tank before installing a new pump.
 
  #16  
Old 02-09-16, 02:59 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 10
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I bit the bullet and called the well guy. He's coming tomorrow. I'll report back if anything interesting arises.

Thanks to all those who contributed.

Roveer
 
  #17  
Old 02-09-16, 03:00 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,984
Received 79 Upvotes on 71 Posts
Yes please let us know... Thank you....
 
  #18  
Old 02-10-16, 10:51 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 10
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
OK, guys came and changed the pump. Changed the poly out to PVC. Used PVC fittings between the sections. Pitless adapter was in good shape so he used it. New pump. They ohm read the old pump before they pulled it and told me it was cooked. I've got a hose on the Tee valve trying to get out the discoloration. Only open 1/4 of the way. Once its clean I'll open up the house again. So hopefully this saga has come to an end.

Roveer
 
  #19  
Old 02-11-16, 08:03 PM
M
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 63
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thanks for filling us in on result. Why only 1/4 turn on T valve to remove discoloration? The well driller told me to go full blast for a few hundred gallons to clean out well (get out all the bad stuff). Even suggested I shock it (I didn't, but got it tested for bad stuff). I suppose, if your well is in dirt and not rock like mine, full on may bring in more dirt...hmm...
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: