Help installing 200' submersible deep well pump


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Old 01-26-17, 12:02 AM
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Help installing 200' submersible deep well pump

Hey guys i have a piece of property i just bought. It has a well on it that is 200 foot deep. There is currently no pump no holding tank ect. I have bought a 30 gallon holding tank it was on sale. Now for a well that deep what would be a good 230v pump? Are any of the 230v pumps off of amazon worth it i was looking at a myers pump and a few others that are stainless steel and brass as where the ones from lowes and other similar stores have a lot of plastic on them ect. Any information on good pumps off of amazon would be cool. Links are awesome to. Now its time for pipe from pump to well head i have heard some people talking about using 160 PSI rated PE polyethylene is that a good idea? How would you connect one run to the next run? How would i install my check valve ect? Would i switch to pvc once i come out of the well casing or use steel pipe? Could i use just the standard pvc sch 40 20' sticks and a pvc cement instead of the 160 PSI rated PE polyethylene i know how to join pvc together ect. Could a person use 1" pex pipe going from well head down to pump? I plan on running a steel cable attached to the pump all the way down so i can hold onto it better as i lower pump down and so that its easier to pull pump in future if i have to. Im not new to the plumbing world just new to installing a pump my self. Thanks for all the help and information. Links or detailed information is greatly appreciated.
 
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Old 01-26-17, 12:57 AM
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Have also been looking at the Red lion 1/2 hp 2 wire 230v pump any opinions? They have amazing reviews and my grandfather has one and really likes it
 
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Old 01-26-17, 03:24 AM
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Where are you located? In the US nominal voltages are 120/240, so we need to know. If in the US, then a 240 volt pump will be best. For a 200' drop, it encroaches on the non-DIY realm of reality. That 40 pound pump will weigh about 400 pounds by the time it gets down into a 200' well with all the pipe attached to it. Well pump installers use special machinery to lower the pumps into the well and attach the pipe, so you may want to check with an installer for this aspect. The tank, switchnig and wiring all are DIY friendly and we can help with that.
 
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Old 01-26-17, 03:46 AM
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I ment 240v phone just didnt type it like i wanted. I have done this before and its hard just wanted more information its been several years
 
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Old 01-26-17, 03:50 AM
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Can be done by hand but its hard but will save me almost 1200.00 bucks so its worth it. Mainly curious about the type of pipe i can use
 
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Old 01-26-17, 04:52 AM
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This must be a case where a Well Driller was employed to drill a well and started; but didn't get paid for the drilling or for the Well Casing ?

Did you speak to them to verify the depth and amount of Casing, and at what level the static water table is located ?

As a Real Estate Broker, I once had a Pump stolen from a property in between occupancy by the Seller and possession by the Buyer . . . . who pulled up one continuous run of EDPM Pipe (with no pump at the bottom. You might be able to get a single continuous run of similar high rated PSI up to 500' in length.

In my case, neither Insurance Company would agree as to who owned the property when the theft occurred, so the Buyer had to shop around for a new Pump and foot the bill himself, and that was only $800.00 installed. . . . but that was over 15 years ago.
 
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Old 01-26-17, 05:25 AM
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Poly pipe comes in long coils. It is best to buy the length that will allow you to do the well with no joints/seams. Don't forget to also get 1/4" synthetic rope to tie onto the pump as a safety. You will also need well wire spice connectors. Almost all submersible pumps have a built in check valve so you will not add a external/separate on. I would run black poly all the way to your house and avoid PVC and steel pipe.

I lay out the black poly and cut it to the length needed. Install the fitting and attach your pump to one end. On the other install your fitting and well cap (important as this will prevent loosing the whole thing down the well). Make your wire connections to the pump and run the wire along the pipe taping it to the pipe about every 10 feet. Make sure to leave slack between your tape joints because poly pipe stretches and expands and contracts with temperature change. Your well is borderline for needing a torque arrestor but if you are installing one don't forget to put it on the pipe.

Go back and inspect everything that will go down the well. It's easy to fix anything now before it goes down the hole. Inspect the top of the well casing. If it's steel I like to wrap the lip with several layers of duct tape to protect the pipe and wire from being cut on it's sharp inner edge.

Next I get a piece of rope about 5' long and tie a prussic knot around the poly pipe and wire. Then tie another piece of rope to the standing end of your prussic sling and the other end to something secure. You want the prussic to be near the top of the well. This is your safety. If you get tired you can let down on the well string and the prussic will automatically tighten and grip the pipe so it can hang by the rope and allow you a break. It also saves your bacon if your grip slips. When lowering the well string I hold the prussic in one hand keeping the prussic loose so the pipe can slide through. Then When your well cap is almost at the well casing remove the prussic.

 
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Old 01-26-17, 10:22 AM
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Pilot dane can i use a solid run of 1" pex or get a solid run of the black 160 psi black pipe? How does the black pipe attach to pump ect? Hose clamps? I like how the pex works so i am just trying to get things figured out thank you for your answer.
 
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Old 01-26-17, 11:43 AM
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Just a little excursion.

Great instructions PD - I have them saved for my future job!
 
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Old 01-26-17, 12:16 PM
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Yes, 1" PEX can be used for the run from the well head to the house. The big limitation to PEX is you cannot expose it to UV light so it must be buried or enclosed somehow. PEX is more expensive than poly so most people just use black poly.

I have never heard of PEX being used down the well and I've always used black poly. You attach poly to the pump with a barbed fitting. It will have male NPT threads on one end that go into the pump and a barbed fitting on the other end for the poly pipe. I heat the poly with a torch or heat gun and it slides on the fitting very easy. Then use two all stainless steel (make sure you get all stainless, some have a stainless band and steel screw which can rust) hose clamps. Install them opposite each other.

I would lean towards using poly down the well. It's barbed fittings are much longer than PEX so you have room to get more than one clamp on the fitting. PEX fittings are much shorter and can really only accommodate one band. It might work very well but I've never tried it.
 
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Old 01-26-17, 01:07 PM
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Heat gun or torch is important. You will never get fitting into hose without it.
 
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Old 01-27-17, 02:50 AM
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Awesome PD thank you. I bought a roll of 300' black pipe today so i will be using it along with a safety rope attach to the pump. Now i have been looking and cant find an answer.... How do i bring the poly pipe threw the well head cover and keep the pipe from slipping out of the head cover and my pump falling all the way down? Im not using the pitless adapter... My well head is in pump house with holding tank and i have pipe ran underground to the house.. So how do i go about putting an elbox ect on the poly pipe to keep it from slipping threw the cover? Thank you for all your help
 
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Old 01-27-17, 05:39 AM
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What type well cap do you have?

Many modern codes require the cap to be vented. You can buy vented caps or install a vent into one of the tapped holes of a non-vented cap. Caps are also available in one or two pieces.

Most caps are available in a variety of sizes. First you pick one that matches the diameter of your well riser. Then choose the version that has a hole in the center (drop pipe) to match your pipe size. They are usually available to mate with 1", 1 1/4", 1 1/2" and 2".
 
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Old 01-28-17, 01:56 AM
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Im located in missouri united states my pump will be 200' will a 1/2 hp be sufficient with a 20 gallon holding tank? I have the tank already will be buying pump soon want to make sure i do this right. I have also decided to use 1" pvc pipe that comes in 20' length.
 
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Old 01-28-17, 04:22 AM
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How much water will you need or want to supply? Horsepower is only half the pump. A pump has a motor (horsepower) and a pump. Pumps can be configured different ways so simply saying 1/2 hp doesn't say much.

When installing your pump you should leave it a minimum of 5' off the bottom and I usually install them 15-20 feet off for a well of your depth. So, when shopping for a pump look at the performance charts at 180 or 190' depth. I like to pick a pump that has the performance I want in the middle of it's operating range.

Will you be installing a holding tank or a pressure tank? They are two different things and the pressure tank is much more common.

What are you using the PVC pipe for? You already said you bought a roll of black poly?
 
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Old 01-28-17, 05:05 AM
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I'm still concerned about the known depth of the drilling, the amount of Casing, and at what level the static water table is located, as I asked back in Post #6.

The Well Driller would probably have the recovery rate in his possession too.
 
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Old 01-28-17, 08:38 AM
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I decided to go pvc route for a few different reasons. I have a 20 gallon pressure tank. The total well depth is 305' the static water level is 120' from surface there is 84' of casing well yield is 48...
 
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Old 01-28-17, 08:41 AM
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There is only going to be a small 800 square foot cabin on the property which will have one kitchen one bathroom a barn for hobbies and equipment storage and i will have 2 horses that i will have to water maybe a small swimming pool in a few years.
 
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Old 01-28-17, 09:06 AM
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Wow! You went from a 200' deep well to one that's 305'. At that depth I'm almost certain you are going to need more than 1/2 hp.

The yield is 48 what?

Where and why are you intending to use the PVC?
 
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Old 01-28-17, 09:30 AM
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Could i use just the standard pvc sch 40 20' sticks and a pvc cement
If I was doing the job in PVC I would use sch 80.
I would also invest in a thread tool and use threaded couplers.
 
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Old 01-29-17, 08:12 AM
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My well is 305' deep. I am setting my pump at around 200' i am using 1" polyethylene pipe got a good deal on a few rolls of it. I am thinking of using a 1/2 hp pump rated for 12 GPM. I bought a brass fitting with extra long barb that will screw into my pump and my poly will attach to it. Will be using stainless steel hose clamps and will be using a safety cable as well. The questions i have are..

Do i need to use a torque arrestor. If so how far above pump.
Do i need to use cable guards. If so how far apart.
How do i attach the polyethylene pipe to my well cover? i am not using a pitless adapter.
My poly will be one single piece no couplers ect.
My biggest thing i cant figure out is how do i get the poly threw the well head to run it over to my pressure tank.
 
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Old 01-29-17, 01:24 PM
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The ones I've seen use a brass extra long barb fitting at the top of the drop pipe, coupled to a brass nipple that goes thru the well head, coupled to a brass 90 degree el fitting that goes above the well head. Include a union somewhere here. Stay away from the plastic barbed fittings. I myself would also stay away from glued PVC underground. As far as torque guard and cable guards, I've seen them used and not used, either way. You don't mention what type of ground the well was drilled through. If it was rocky, I think I'd use the cable guards. Good luck, Steve
 
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Old 01-29-17, 04:44 PM
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Please post the spec. sheet for your 1/2hp pump that can provide 12gpm from 200'. That's pretty ambitious for a 1/2 hp pump.

Most well caps have a hole in the center for the pipe to pass through. You install a elbow on the top side and tightening the cap clamps down on the pipe. The cap clamping is the #1 thing holding the weight of the pump string but if it slips the hose clamps on your elbow fitting provide a backup. Then from the elbow on top of the well head you connect whatever piping to get to your house.
 
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Old 01-29-17, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by sdodder
". . . You don't mention what type of ground the well was drilled through . . ."
Nor do we know in what State or Province this well activity is being planned.

I wondered because he's elected to go without using a Pitless Adaptor, so it must be someplace south of the Mason-Dixon, where frozen pipes aren't ever a concern.
 
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Old 01-29-17, 06:07 PM
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Vermont i said in previous post i am in missouri united states and no i don't need a pitless adapter. Yes it freezes here. But like i also said my well head pressure tank and everything is in one small pump house so there for that would mean it has heat so there for it will not freeze.
 
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Old 01-30-17, 07:48 AM
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Name:  well head 1.jpg
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Does this depict the configurations discussed previously? If I understand jmol one question is how do you handle the well seal. When do you install or remove the seal and how/when do you slip the drop pipe through it. Don’t want to put words in jmol’s mouth but is that one of the questions. (Same one I have.)
 
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Old 01-30-17, 12:36 PM
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Yes, I think you've got it right. Some caps will compress down and squeeze the pipe to hold it in place when you tighten the bolts in the cap. Others will not grab the pipe and rely on the hose clamps above to prevent it from slipping through the hole. And, you've got the rope as a safety in case the pipe slips through or the pipe breaks.
 
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Old 01-30-17, 02:27 PM
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I am having a hard time finding a 1" barb x 1" barb elbow but i found one that is used for pex pipe will that work? I think there is a sizing difference isnt there? I did find an elbox that has 1" barb x 3/4" female threaded wouldnt that work since the T i am using going into my pressure tank has a 3/4" inlet and 3/4" outlet. It is a 1" that screws into the pressure tank but the inlet from the pump and outlet going to the house is 3/4" ? Then i could pull some poly pipe threw the well head install my elbow along with some stsinless steel hose clamps. Tighten my cap bolts. Secure my safety rope ect. Would that work out. I was planning on if the 1" barb by 3/4" female threaded would work i was going to install a 6" steel nipple so incase my rope gave away or incase any thing happen it wouldnt just bust off. Thanks for all the help
 
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Old 01-30-17, 04:42 PM
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You have to search for “brass insert fittings poly pipe”. Here is one, but I’m never sure if these are OK for potable water. I guess so – they are low lead, but not no-lead.

https://www.doitbest.com/products/40...702d410a005221
 
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Old 01-30-17, 04:43 PM
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You can NOT use PEX fittings on black poly pipe. You may not always find the one fitting that does everything you want. In that case you piece together whatever fittings are required to get the job done. If you've got time everything can be ordered from the Internet and offers a far greater selection than a local home center.

I forgot to ask. If your well is 305' deep why are you only putting your pump down 200? That's just wasting 1/3 of the well.

If you use synthetic rope (polypropylene is probably the most commonly used) it will be the most reliable part of your setup so I wouldn't worry about relying on a steel nipple as a backup. It's probably more likely the steel nipple will rust through before the rope dies of old age especially since the rope is protected from the sun.
 
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Old 01-31-17, 06:04 AM
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How can i use poly rope in a deep well application. Wont the water over time rot the rope. I am nervous about using rope i have never seen rope not rot that is placed in water.
 
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Old 01-31-17, 06:07 AM
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This well has not been used in about 4 years. Should i chlorniate the well or any thing before using it.
 
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Old 01-31-17, 08:38 AM
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Rot is specifically why you use a synthetic rope like polypropylene. It doesn't rot.

Yes, you should shock chlorinate the well before using the water. You'll do that after you get the pump installed.
 
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Old 01-31-17, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jmolnar
". . . This well has not been used in about 4 years . . ."
I was under the impression that this well had never been completed.

If it was in use 4 years ago, what was the disposition of that pump, piping, and plumbing fixtures ?
 
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Old 01-31-17, 10:55 AM
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I still want to know why only go 200' deep in a 305' well???
 
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Old 01-31-17, 03:36 PM
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Vermont well has not been used in 4 years ruffly. It was an old farm and the farmer died left it to his kids his kids lived in a big city wanted nothing to do with farm they held onto it and finally sold it to me. It the 4 years the land sat empty some one stole the pump and steel pipe and wire and holding tank most likely for scrap. The plumbing going from well to barn is no good its old it's brittle and just not worth chancing. I am only going to put pump down around 200' maybe 220' because the pump company that set the pump years ago only set it at 200 and he never had any problems with it and he was running a dairy farm opperation so for my little water needs no since in going any deeper
 
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Old 01-31-17, 03:41 PM
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What do i use to shock or chlorniate the well with. How long after i do so do i have to wait before i can use the well
 
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Old 01-31-17, 04:35 PM
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Vermont is the pro here on these matters. But I believe on a sale the sellers formal disclosure statement is supposed to inform you of any known problems – including any with the water quality – I think. It sounds like in your case no one would have been able to give you any assurances concerning the quality of the well water.

If it were me, I would not assume the water is potable or make any assumptions about the water quality at all. I think you need to get a water quality test before you make the assumption shock chlorination is in order. You may find out you need to set up a water treatment system.

I would also check the well depth and static water level before I installed any equipment.

Just my opinion.
 
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Old 01-31-17, 04:47 PM
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Zoes if you look at previous post all that information has already been discussed
 
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Old 01-31-17, 05:10 PM
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I can’t find it. How could you have gotten a water quality test without a pump? Suppose the records are incorrect in terms of well depth and static water level? Wouldn’t this be the time to check the depth and static water level while the casing is empty?

What are you going to do if you install the pump 200 feet down and you can’t draw enough water?
 
 

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