Help with well pump
#1
04-17-19, 09:15 AM
Help with well pump
[left]Hi, I am new to this site but found some useful information in older threads.
We have a 1-1/2hp well pump down about 300-feet. It stopped running and I have checked things, but not sure what the results mean.
The three local well-companies here all charge the same $700 to lift and lower the pump and another $700 for a new pump. Before handing over the plastic, I thought I would ask first.
New pump back in 2010 and this failed too run in 2013 and I replaced the relay control box, but I did not take notes on what the numbers were so no idea if this is the same thing or not.[left]
There is continuity between the power and pump.Pump Black to Red = 11-Ohms
Pump Black to Yellow = 3-Ohms
Pump Yellow to Red = 11-Ohms
There is 240vac from the pressure switch relay to the pump on all three wires.
With 240vac on and a clamp meter
Black wire 11-A
Yellow wire 11-A
Red wire 1-A
We have a 1-1/2hp well pump down about 300-feet. It stopped running and I have checked things, but not sure what the results mean.
The three local well-companies here all charge the same $700 to lift and lower the pump and another $700 for a new pump. Before handing over the plastic, I thought I would ask first.
New pump back in 2010 and this failed too run in 2013 and I replaced the relay control box, but I did not take notes on what the numbers were so no idea if this is the same thing or not.[left]
There is continuity between the power and pump.
Pump Black to Yellow = 3-Ohms
Pump Yellow to Red = 11-Ohms
There is 240vac from the pressure switch relay to the pump on all three wires.
With 240vac on and a clamp meter
Black wire 11-A
Yellow wire 11-A
Red wire 1-A
#2
04-17-19, 09:45 AM
Group Moderator
Welcome to the forums.
After you respond I'll be moving this to the well forums.
Red = start winding
Yellow = common
Black = run winding
Based on your current measurements.... the pump should be running. The current on the red wire would be sky high on starting only. If the pump was stalled you'd have a breaker tripping. I'm inclined to think your pump is not running in water.
After you respond I'll be moving this to the well forums.
Red = start winding
Yellow = common
Black = run winding
Based on your current measurements.... the pump should be running. The current on the red wire would be sky high on starting only. If the pump was stalled you'd have a breaker tripping. I'm inclined to think your pump is not running in water.
#3
04-17-19, 10:45 AM
Thanks Pete. Scary thought, but we could always hear it running when standing at the pressure switch. A low hum and faint vibration, but now it is silent. It's a four wire by the way, with Ground as the 4th. Sorry for not mentioning that. I didn't see a well-forum, but will look again.
#5
04-17-19, 11:33 AM
Group Moderator
Thread moved. You should be directed here automatically.
You've troubleshot the system more than most members that come here for help.
When we count wires..... ground is usually not included so you have a three wire system (with ground)
You've measured a current draw on the main windings of 11A at 240v. That tells me that the pump should be running. If it wasn't running..... like it was stalled..... that current would shoot up and trip the breaker. Those three wire systems have their starting parts up top. If it wasn't getting the start kick.... the motor would sit there stalled. the current would rise and the breaker would trip. Your pump should be protected with a 2P20A breaker.
My forum partner Dane will be by. I'd wait for his comments.
You've troubleshot the system more than most members that come here for help.
When we count wires..... ground is usually not included so you have a three wire system (with ground)
You've measured a current draw on the main windings of 11A at 240v. That tells me that the pump should be running. If it wasn't running..... like it was stalled..... that current would shoot up and trip the breaker. Those three wire systems have their starting parts up top. If it wasn't getting the start kick.... the motor would sit there stalled. the current would rise and the breaker would trip. Your pump should be protected with a 2P20A breaker.
My forum partner Dane will be by. I'd wait for his comments.
#6
04-17-19, 11:50 AM
Thanks again. The breaker is not tripping and the 11-ish current draw is steady. Not sure what fuse is in the box but I will walk down and check it.
I tried manually flipping the pressure switch thinking it might give it a kick, but nothing. Do these pumps have start coils and centrifugal switches in them?
When it used to run OK, it would hum a second or so then start pumping.
I tried manually flipping the pressure switch thinking it might give it a kick, but nothing. Do these pumps have start coils and centrifugal switches in them?
When it used to run OK, it would hum a second or so then start pumping.
#7
04-17-19, 11:57 AM
Group Moderator
The start controls are in a box up top. You mentioned you replaced it before.
Did you replace it with the identical part ?
Was this the same problem back then ?
There should be a relay inside the starting control that will click when pump gets started.
Did you replace it with the identical part ?
Was this the same problem back then ?
There should be a relay inside the starting control that will click when pump gets started.
#8
04-17-19, 12:49 PM
Not sure if it is the exact same problem but it might have been as I would not have gone searching for the relay if the pump was not showing continuity and reasonable winding Resistances, as it is now also.
At that time (and still can't) I could not get a Franklin relay as they would only sell the entire box for $140 so bought a Potential Relay from Amazon. It had all the correct figures for PU etc and has been working fine.
I will go pull it out, but not sure I can actually check anything once it is out.
At that time (and still can't) I could not get a Franklin relay as they would only sell the entire box for $140 so bought a Potential Relay from Amazon. It had all the correct figures for PU etc and has been working fine.
I will go pull it out, but not sure I can actually check anything once it is out.
#9
04-17-19, 01:11 PM
Group Moderator
#10
04-17-19, 02:32 PM
OK, there has been a development -- of sorts. It has been really windy and it dropped to a whisper an hour ago so when I was out messing with the box etc, I could hear the faint humming of the pump so it is probably turning.
Maybe the impeller has dropped off or something. Or, maybe as you suggested earlier no water. But, when they last lifted the thing for the new pump there was 90-feet of water over the pump. Can't imagine we have lost that much cover, but WDIK. While there I took the Potential relay out and compared with with the original Franklin one - yes, I still have it. Same make and model and a note that I had attached. It was working intermittently back then so that's why I replaced it.Franklin don't use "magic," parts so "only use a Franklin," would have been wasteful when all I needed was the relay back then. That box only has a $17 relay, $5 reset switch and two $10-capacitors. None of which are made by Franklin and are easily sourced at Amazon.Looks like the pump has to come up.Sorry about the wall of text but my Linux PC is not passing CR+LF correctly on this board.
While there I took the Potential relay out and compared with with the original Franklin one - yes, I still have it. Same make and model and a note that I had attached. It was working intermittently back then so that's why I replaced it.Franklin don't use "magic," parts so "only use a Franklin," would have been wasteful when all I needed was the relay back then. That box only has a $17 relay, $5 reset switch and two $10-capacitors. None of which are made by Franklin and are easily sourced at Amazon.Looks like the pump has to come up.Sorry about the wall of text but my Linux PC is not passing CR+LF correctly on this board.
#11
04-17-19, 04:12 PM
Group Moderator
I was about to say that since your pump is pulling 11 amps it should be pumping water. 11 amps is about the full load draw for a 1 1/2 hp motor. If it were sucking air I would expect it to pull less amperage. The same if the pump section has separated from the motor.
I as also going to ask if you have recently done any plumbing work that would have caused someone to close a shutoff valve. Also, you can usually only hear something at the pressure switch and tank when water is flowing. If water is not flowing through the system you usually can't hear the pump running all the way down in the well.
Are you getting any water at all in the house?
I as also going to ask if you have recently done any plumbing work that would have caused someone to close a shutoff valve. Also, you can usually only hear something at the pressure switch and tank when water is flowing. If water is not flowing through the system you usually can't hear the pump running all the way down in the well.
Are you getting any water at all in the house?
#12
04-17-19, 05:36 PM
Member
Possible rust out of pipe and/or fittings in well below water level and not allowing pump to build up pressure due to leaking. I have experienced this failure many times in my lifetime. Most recently March of 2018.
Of course the pump will need pulled for that repair and if it does not have a good nylon rope connecting with ground level, please install one.
RR
Of course the pump will need pulled for that repair and if it does not have a good nylon rope connecting with ground level, please install one.
RR
