Water pumps replacement


  #1  
Old 05-25-20, 06:39 AM
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Water pumps replacement

We moved in to new house few months ago and started to hear loud noise coming from one of the pumps. I believe it is a sump pump. My friend told me that it means the pump is dying. I would like to replace both pumps especially since I dont know if they were ever replacef and I'm scared since we get so much rain in May.
I have never replaced pumps but I'm guessing it is easy and anyone can do it. Today I'm planning to unplug cables and take them out to see what I have. Can you tell me what to buy? Or any advice?
 
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Old 05-25-20, 08:36 AM
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You haven't given us any real information so we can't advise you what to purchase. Start by actually going to the noisy pump yourself and not rely on a friend's report. When you see what you have you'll have a better idea of what you need.
 
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Old 05-25-20, 09:25 AM
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I'm sorry. I went to my basement just after writing first post and here is what i got.
First, I don't know what is the proper name and function of each pumps. I have 2 of them. I understand one is called sump pump and the other one is ???
Let's call it this way.
Pump1 is on the left of my furnace, looks really old. I can hardly read make and model.
I think it takes away dirty water from my restrooms etc and the flush sound is very very loud. Also you can hear it shoots water once in a while when nobody uses water or restroom at home. Suspicious???
Pump2 is on the right of my furnace and there are 2 "things" in the well (orange and black), they look newer.
Can you please tell me what they do? Do I buy them together as a kit? Should I just replace one?
I think this pump removes water during/after rain from the soil.
Please correct me if I'm wrong and advice.
I attached photos.

 
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Old 05-25-20, 02:07 PM
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So I did some research. It looks like pump1 is a sewer/sewage pump Zoeller M264-B 0.4HP cast iron.
I found almost the same M264, costs $350.
The other is sump pump Coleman 50-ASP, which I can't find online but it looks newer.
There is also some Basement Watchdog 2300 GBH, which is probably some backup but there is no battery, just lonely pigtail on top of well.
I'm planning to buy new pumps. 1 new sewer pump and 1 sump pump. I won't invest in backup battery.
Should I buy the same ones?
I'm thinking to buy 1/2 HP cast iron sump pump for around $150, I don't know what brand.
and I would like to get 0.4 or 1/2HP cast iron sewer pump for around $150, probably from Little Giant.
Can you recommend good brands?
 
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Old 05-27-20, 09:57 AM
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Did I ask wrong? no replies...
 
  #6  
Old 05-27-20, 11:24 AM
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Avoid store brand pumps and stick with a brand name like Zoeller, Gould, Little Giant... I generally prefer cast iron pumps over plastic. They are more expensive and I believe generally better quality than plastic pumps. Plus, the extra weight helps hold them in place.

You don't need a sewage pump but it can work. A standard sump pump will work fine. Sewage ejector pumps are designed to chop solids (poo & paper) which isn't a bad feature to have but it does make the pump slightly less efficient than a sump pump which is designed to just pump water.
 
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Old 05-28-20, 11:46 AM
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What do you mean in that I dont need sewage pump? Should I buy then 2 sump pumps to both wells?
 
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Old 05-28-20, 12:36 PM
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Are you pumping sewage with your pumps?
 
  #9  
Old 05-29-20, 07:51 AM
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I am confused. Sewage is poop, right?
This is why I have sewage pump in left well and sump pump in right well
 
  #10  
Old 05-29-20, 09:15 AM
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Each pump can be replaced independently of the other.

The well or pit for sewage that is the subject of a sewage pump must be sealed for proper sanitation. So if the applicable pit you have is not sealed I expect is is really a plain water pit.

The two pits may or may not be interconnected, either with a fat pipe connected directly or because they are both connected to the same under-floor perimeter weeping tile (French drain) system. With the pits interconnected, one pump will act as a backup for the other. The "main" pump is the one that starts first, i.e. at a lower water level.

>>

If you had asked an easier question then you would have gotten more replies sooner.
 

Last edited by AllanJ; 05-29-20 at 09:35 AM.
  #11  
Old 06-01-20, 12:25 PM
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My bad, I will try to describe it more clearly.
Each pump can be replaced independently of the other.
I think they work independently. They are in different wells.
The first pump is in left well. It is green and the water is very dark and dirty (probably poop).
You can see this pump (green one) on photos 1-7.
The second well has 2 pumps(orange and black). Orange one works but black most likely not since there is no battery on top of well. Water here is clear and you can see through. Most likely rain water. You can see these pumps on photos 7-10.

The well or pit for sewage that is the subject of a sewage pump must be sealed for proper sanitation. So if the applicable pit you have is not sealed I expect is is really a plain water pit.
Our home inspector told us that both should be sealed for proper radon mitigation(yes, it was installed).
We opened them because we had problem with at least on the of pumps. It was raining and it didnt work.
I attached 3 new photos.
Photo 1 is sewage pump well. There is no caulking around lid but there is something yellowish around one of the pipes.
Photos 2&3 are sump pump well. There is caulking around lid.
I will clean lids and seal them with new caulking after pump replacement.

With the pits interconnected, one pump will act as a backup for the other.
I'm not sured if there are connected. I don't see it.

Now, the questions:
1)So finally should I buy just simply 2 sump pumps and install 1 in each well?
2)If I repleace green(sewage) pump with new sump pump what will happen to solid poop and paper? How regular sump pump will push it out?
3) Is there any special or proper caulking to seal both lids?
4) Shouldn't sewage well stink? I don't smell anything.
5) is there anything I can do to the loud sound which we can hear in the moment of water being ejected from pump? I hope new pump won't be heard.
 
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  #12  
Old 06-02-20, 04:14 AM
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1. You will need to analyze the water in the left pit before choosing a pump to replace tghe green pump. Including running water in various sinks and basins and the washing machine and yes, also toilets, to see what ends up in the pit. Run water from a garden hose directly into the pit and run the pump for several cycles to clear the water. Then you can put dye in the water from the sink or toilet to see wh what gets into the pit more clearly. Be sure to test all plumbing fixtures in the basement.

2. If your tests in #1 revealed toilet or washing machine water getting into that pit then you will need a sewage pump, not a plain sump pump, as a replacement.

3. Any kind of caulk can be used. We will not rule out the possibility that, if the left pit is a sewage pit, then you maight need to replace the innards with a special sewage pump enclosure which uses gaskets rather than caulk.

4. If it does not stink then chances are it is either another plain water pit or a gray water (includes washing machines and showers) pit. A sewage pump is preferred because an ordinary sump pump may deterioirate faster with laundry detergent. A sewage pump is definitely needed for a black water (includes toilet waste) disposal system.

.5. Hard to say whether the new pump will be really quiet. You may need to analyze the pipes and equipment to see if other parts are rattling or resonating when the pump starts and making some of the noise. It is best when the pump starts it should keep going until the pit is nearly empty. But you might get less noise at the end if the cycle if the pump stops a little sooner..

6. Radon mitigation is a separate topic that can be procrastinated on if you wish. The customary method involves sealing the pit lids around the edge and where pipes enter and also adding a 2 inch more or less pipe connection from each pit lid to the radon mitigation suction system.
 

Last edited by AllanJ; 06-02-20 at 04:49 AM.
  #13  
Old 06-02-20, 08:55 AM
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hi guys –

You all are way ahead of me on this, and I’m no expert for sure, but let me just throw out a few things that by chance may have some significance (or not –lol)

I would like to replace both pumps especially since I dont know if they were ever replacef and I'm scared since we get so much rain in May.
I think – IMHO - you are approaching this the wrong way. Why is there any reason to believe that your sewage ejector system has any problem whatsoever? If you are hearing what could be a bad pump (but that it is a bad pump has not actually determined at this time), and you are afraid it is the sump pump, and so you would be rightly afraid that you may end up with a flood, then why can’t you test the sump pump itself? Can’t you use a hose test and really put the sump pump through its paces? It seems to me you can run tests and find out if that pump is making funny/strange/worrisome noises during operation. If not – leave the sump pump alone (unless you want to add the backup).

Also, it seems to me you actually also have the potential to actually cause a problem by replacing a working sewage pump with any kind of replacement whatsoever.

Also you can hear it shoots water once in a while when nobody uses water or restroom at home. Suspicious???
Maybe you have a toilet that has a slow leak from tank into bowl. That is not uncommon.

Also, I think that a sewage pump pit is required to have a vent that is not connected to the house vent. I think that’s the case – but I’m not sure. So can’t you trace one of those vertical pipes leaving pit 1 and confirm it is a vent pipe? Then wouldn’t that clinch it – that pit 1 is part of a sewage ejection system? It really seems that's probably is unnecessary – because what would a Zoeller 264 sewage pump be doing in that well otherwise?

Just my 2 cents!

 
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Old 06-15-20, 02:02 PM
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Canít you use a hose test and really put the sump pump through its paces?
I didn't test it with hose. I know both pumps are working. I've seen it with own eyes. I just wanted to be sured that if I am in different state then pumps will work.
Maybe you have a toilet that has a slow leak from tank into bowl.
This was good idea. I have 3 restrooms. Since I replaced first(most used) when we have moved in then I checked 2 upstairs. I closed valve to supply water to them. I opened first after 2 days. Then I opened last one after few other days. Somehow we can hear this weird loud pump water flushing noise very rarely, close to never. So I didn't do any tests to actual toilets but at least I changed a little position on this valve connector.
Is it possible that it helped? Because this valve only supplies water to toilet. If it leaks, then it leaks to outside on floor, right?
Anyway, when you say slow leak, do you mean a leak from this round big seal under whole toilet or maybe some seal inside tank?
leave the sump pump alone (unless you want to add the backup).
I was thinking to buy battery to the fthird pump, which is Watchdog. I don't know if it is working and battery isn't cheap. I heard there is no guarantee that this backup will actually work when you need it. battery can die just from not using it. Is it true?
 
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Old 06-15-20, 02:31 PM
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trailer Ė

Sometimes toilet tanks leak water very slowly from the flush valve into the bowl. Thatís the valve with the flapper that rises up when you push the handle to flush. Sometimes if the flapper is old and bent a little, or there is a little crud under the flapper or on the opening, or the chain isnít connected right so that the flapper almost closes but not completely, or the chain is too long and gets caught under the flapper - you can get a very slow leak into the bowl.

So all of a sudden out of the blue you might hear the fill valve come on in the toilet tank, or in your case the sewage pump might come on. I donít know how much water would need to leak to get the sewage pump to come on. But it seems in principle it would be possible.

One way to check is to put red food dye in the tank and see if it shows up in the bowl. What I do instead, is turn off the supply to the toilet, mark where the water level is, and next day see if the water level went down in the tank. But I think more people use the dye test.

Iím no expert but I think all batteries run down even if you donít use them. For something as important as a backup for a sump-pump I think you could just periodically check the battery with a meter. Thatís what I would do.

Just my 2 cents, or less lol!!
 
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Old 06-15-20, 02:32 PM
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Before buying a battery I would try and estimate the flow coming into your sump. Then compare it with the specs for the Watchdog. A Watchdog may only pump 1'000 gallons per hour if it has to pump the water up 10 feet. Your average 1/2 hp sump pump will remove 3-4 times as much water in the same hour.

If the Watchdog can keep up with the inflows then getting a new battery might be a good investment. If the pump can't keep up then you have to consider if spending the money on a battery is worth it. Even if it can't keep up it will help by slowing the rise and buy you more time to get other pumps in place.
 
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Old 07-11-20, 07:27 AM
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Sorry, I didnt have time to respond sooner.
Anyway, I checked it out a little. So Coleman sump pump doesnt exist and it a while to finally get answer from company which splitted from Coleman and has details about my pump. It can push 4200gph@ 5ft vertical height. Watchdog also responded many times. I have to throw away tjis backup pump and buy whole combo which is around $500 so it can make some sense.
Combo includes main sump pump, backup pump, wifi alert unit, battery and some unit which keeps battery alive.
Price is huge comparing to just regular sump pump from HD for $150(not plastic).
At first I was ... "all way in" for this idea so I can have peace of mind. Now when I know that there are only 2 backup pumps to choose and they can do 1000 or 1850gph.
Pointless... but... how much rain is actually getting into the well? How fast this pump has to be? At least 3000-4000gph?
I also looked at generators.
Ive seen them for $300-400 and I could power up not only 2 pumps but also my fridge and freezer. Then I found out that regular generator can damage it. Is it really true?
So I looked at inverter generators. They are $500-1000 but one can only power up one thing.
Lots of money.
What do you think? What would be best idea?
Ohhhh last thing, maybe even the most important.
So I alreafy did this test 2 times. Both have same results.
In dry week, no rain at all I went to sump pump well. I pulled up floater. Water was pushed out and then it came back from pipe. Is it normal? How is it possible?
 
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Old 07-11-20, 09:15 AM
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I have relatives with a basement in the midwest (flat land) which has two sump pits with pumps. Water always got in so the pumps were critical when they finished the basement. At first they had battery backup pumps but the battery powered pumps could not keep up with the inflow during heavy rains so all they could do delay the flood. They bought a generator but... they could not travel or go on vacation for fear the power would go out when they were gone. Eventually they ended up getting a whole house backup generator with automatic staring so it would come on automatically in case nobody was home when the power went out.

Try to limit the number of questions you post at one time. I've got a short attention span.
 
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Old 07-11-20, 09:43 AM
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Ohhhh last thing, maybe even the most important.
So I already did this test 2 times. Both have same results. In dry week, no rain at all I went to sump pump well. I pulled up floater. Water was pushed out and then it came back from pipe. Is it normal? How is it possible?
There is usually a check valve in the discharge line that stops water from coming back into the pit. Depending on where it's mounted you will get a small amount of water back as the line drains from the valve to the pit.

If you get a lot of water back.... the check valve may not be completely closing allowing more discharge water to run back.
 
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Old 07-11-20, 12:17 PM
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The thing is ... you are talking about wrong pipe. The well has two pipes. White pvc pipe on top and black wide one on the bottom of well. White one is attached to pump and is used to push water out of basement. The black pipe is the entrance for rain water. So when I pulled floater up water was pushed out through white pipe but almost immidiately (new) water came to well through black pipe. Shouldnt my well be empty at some point? It is not.
I can record video, I just need to find where to upload...
 

Last edited by trailer-mechani; 07-11-20 at 01:55 PM.
  #21  
Old 07-11-20, 02:51 PM
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I donít have a sump pit system but your question got me curious. I found this which sounds pretty good (to me anyway Ėlol). Seems to make sense:

https://basementboss.com/my-sump-pit...-be-concerned/

Having a routinely dry sump pit can be just as harmful to your pump as having an overwhelming, continuous flow of water. When a sump pit remains dry for extended periods of time, seals can dry out and crack. ... If this should happenÖ then your pump won't be able to perform when it's needed.
https://www.hunker.com/13416298/how-...ter-a-sump-pit

Sump pits collect water to feed it into the pump, typically by means of gravity. This means that some water will always be in the sump pit. Depending on the pit, there are different thresholds of how high the water will sit. Once the water gets above that level, the pump will turn on and clear out the water before it soaks the basement.
Sounds like you are OK. You just lifted the float and the pump came on and flow started as normal.
 
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Old 07-11-20, 03:39 PM
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Water was pushed out and then it came back from pipe. Is it normal?
You didn't differentiate what pipes were involved. It appeared to be the discharge line we were discussing.

The normal resting water level in a pit rarely changes. It may go up slightly towards the rainy season. Many sumps have water in them year round so when you activated the pump, the water level went down and you saw water coming out of the incoming drain line. In many areas that's completely normal.

You will need to monitor the water level to establish a "normal" level.
Try some experimenting.
1) Turn that pump off and see how high the water rises.
2) Hold the pump float up so that the pit fully drains. Is there water still coming in the black pipe ?


 
  #23  
Old 07-16-20, 12:11 PM
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1) Turn that pump off and see how high the water rises.
there is always half of well.

. Hold the pump float up so that the pit fully drains. Is there water still coming in the black pipe ?
water always comes in from black pipe. Well water level can only go as low as to 1/4. It never drains.
 
 

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