Battery backup sump pump recommedation

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  #1  
Old 08-03-20, 10:19 AM
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Battery backup sump pump recommedation

Our current setup is a Pentair va1 pump with a Liberty Pump water powered backup.

heavy rains last night, this morning at 730 we lost power. Thanks goodness for the water detector alarm we had. The audible alarm went off. However, the email and text notification did not work. I guess because the router was off?

the water powered back up was installed very high and as such, the inlet pipes fill with water and the level in the sump,pit continued to rise. Not wanting to wait any longer, I manually started the water pump by lifting the floating valve. It started to eject water.....but very slowly, and a great water consumption.

we ended up draining the pit with a bucket for the next 3 hours. Iím not convinced the water powered pump would be enough if we werenít home. So....need recommendations for a battery backup.

can I install a battery backup with my existing system? Or will I need to re-plumb?

thoughts on Pump Sentry? Seems exactly what I need and easiest install.

https://www.pumpsentry.ca/product/model-1622ps/3

The pentair was installed in 2016 (before we bought the place). When, and would you, proactively replace it, before it fails. 10 years?




 
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  #2  
Old 08-03-20, 11:08 AM
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You are in for a treat. Battery backups are rated for power use thru time. So little load longer run time.
Bigger load shorter run time. I went and looked at your pump. Depending on the head it seems to me that it is designed to run for a long time. The information I found says it draws 8 amps. The chart I found says at 20 feet of head the pump will remove a bit over 600 gallons an hour.
You need to know the current draw on the existing pump. Then guessimate the time it needs to run.
You will find these battery backups with inverters will cost lots of money when the run time approaches an hour. Some UPS's can be modified to have more batteries. Then you have something else to take care of.

As an alternate thought maybe change to a 12 or 24v dc motor and pump. Then you can loose the inverter and the losses it provides. If you change the pump you probably will have to rest the float levels. You will probably need new controls for the new pump and you will need a power supply. A couple of golf cart batteries at Costco are about 100 each. Then all you need is the wiring and a good 12v charger which has the ability to sense the status of the batteries.
https://www.amazon.com/Superior-Pump...01&sr=8-3&th=1

Also you could add a auto start generator to your home if power outages are an issue. Which it would seem that they are considering you have a hole in your basement. (small attempt at humor)

I suggest that you research the ideas I have suggested and see which one will work best for your situation.
I have only seen one water pump concept like the one you have and it did not work all that well. Let alone the amount of water you used.
Batteries are a bit of a schooling until you get into that world. Nothing is maintenance free.
 
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Old 08-03-20, 12:18 PM
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Thatís a lot of info.

yes, I see the current pump is rated at 8 amps. Are you saying it might draw more and I need to figure that draw out?

the pump sentry comes in two versions. The smaller one seems to fit my need for pumps less than 9a and 1/3 hp.

what do you mean by they will cost a lot of money....initial purchase price or usage costs?

and when figuring out run time needed? Am I figuring out total run time? Or run time intervals?

 
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Old 08-03-20, 01:46 PM
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Do most battery backup systems run a separate DC pump with lower flow?
 
  #5  
Old 08-03-20, 02:11 PM
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Yes, most battery backup sump pumps use a pump of lower capacity which is something you have to keep in mind when shopping. I've seen people go cheap and buy a pump that simply can't keep up. If you have 1'000 gallons per hour coming into the house and your backup pump can only move 750 gal/hr it doesn't take a genius to understand that there could be a wet mess if the power stays out for very long.

Keep in mind that ultimately your battery backup system is powered by a... battery. The system is only as good as it's battery. Just like the one in your car, batteries slowly die with age. So, after five years, even if you never used the backup sump pump the battery may have lost significant capacity and you pump might not run nearly as long as it used to.
 
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Old 08-03-20, 02:43 PM
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Thanks. There seems so much to consider,

protecting against power failure.
protecting against pump failure.

i'm inclined to go with the sump sentry power inverter solution. am I wrong?

or should I rebuild the whole assembly with a dc powered battery backup? Do they have good ones which push a lot of water.

Weíre lakefront, high water table. Fully finished basement with no floor drains. some neighbors have whole home generators but we donít have propane tanks at our house.


i donít have a lot of confidence in my Liberty Pump water powered pump. I still havenít FULLY tested it. I always manual start it before the water level rise even more. It does seem to lower the water line, but VERY slowly.
i think my pit is rather unique and the supply lines (weeping tile) fill up A LOT before the pit gets full. Itís almost appears as if the supply lines are lower than their exit point. See image. As the water rises, it starts to back fill the weeping tile pipes. Iíve never let the manual pump initiate on its own, as Iím worried about how high the water would be in the pit and if it would be able drain it. Could the weeping tiles pipes overflow beneath the grade or around the foundation before the pit fills? I NEED to run that test one day when I have the main pump available to take over if things got out of hand.

weíre home most of the time. Usually take one 2 week vacation a year, but we also plan on taking month long vacations each year by 2023. Iím looking for the safest long-term solution to protect during long-term vacancies. House would be monitored 2-3 days a week by a neighbor.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 08-05-20 at 09:59 PM. Reason: resized picture
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Old 08-05-20, 11:02 AM
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So my neighbours sump pump failed during the storm and their backup couldnít keep up, we have the same backup. The plumber said the discharge line for the backup was too small. 1 1/4 vs 1.5.

so......Iím torn as to what to do.

i like The pump sentry idea....it provides backup power for the main pump. Ie. it does have a second pump as a backup. Risk here is that the pump itself fails. I would plan to proactively replace it at 10 years old.

or should I gut the system and start over with the new 2 pump combo systems? Basement watchdog mid or top models.

the existing Pentair I have (which I believe is a quality pump) is only 4 years old.


 
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Old 08-05-20, 01:04 PM
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While a 1 1/2" line is bigger than 1 1/4" the difference is not huge. But it's an easy way to gain extra pumping capacity so I'd install the larger line or even go to 2" if you have to do some digging. The larger line would further improve the flow from your existing system and you'd have a larger line in place if you ever go to a larger pump.

I would not plan on replacing your pump based on age. I have many homes with quality pumps 20++ years old that still run strong while new, cheap store brand pumps fail within a few years.

The best solution, and most expensive, would be an automatic backup generator. That would allow you to have a full size AC pump and full size AC backup pump capable of running through any length power outage and you get lights, TV and your ice cream doesn't melt.

My second option would be a battery backup system. The system MUST be sized to handle whatever inflows may come. Don't be optimistic with your calculations in order to save some money. The power tends to go out with big storms when you need maximum pumping capacity. Then, you need enough batteries (yes, more than one) to power the system for as long as you think the power could be out. In my adult life I've been through three outages lasting more than 5 days which is not feasible with battery backup but maybe 6, 12 or 24 hours is good enough for your location.

---
My in-laws have a finished basement that would fill to 5' deep whenever the power went out or the pumps failed. They installed redundant AC powered pumps and tried battery and water powered backup pumps. The backup systems were OK for moderate rains and short duration power outages. With big or long rain storms they needed the more powerful AC pumps as the backups couldn't keep up. When the power went out the backups gave them a short while to start their generator and flip the transfer switch. Then one year they went on vacation and a storm hit. The power went out for days. The battery backup system ran until the battery died and the water powered pump didn't stand a chance against the water on it's own... and the basement flooded. They became prisoners to their home and stopped traveling more than a few hours from home for fear the power would go out. In the end they bit the bullet and installed a generator with automatic start/stop so they could travel with peace of mind. As a side benefit they have lights & TV when the power goes out.
 
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Old 08-05-20, 01:10 PM
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Do you recommend any high quality battery backup pumps?

I like the idea of the Wayne WSs30v...combo system. But it all and start fresh.

or is there are stand alone battery backup you like?

generator is not an option. No propane or gas.
 
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Old 08-05-20, 09:48 PM
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Threads combined. Eliminates asking repetitive questions.

Looks like a pretty good combo. I don't have a sump pump so I can't speak from experience on this unit but there were plenty of reviews on amazon. Get a good battery.
 
  #11  
Old 08-10-20, 09:26 AM
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A propane tank is not that big of a deal. Call the local distributors and see what they will rent/lease a tank. Also check the delivered fill price of propane. That can vary.

With all of the discussion personally I would not be eager to go into a battery backup situation. My gut says it would cost almost as a genny outside. The set up of the unit may be more than a battery backup but hugely easier to take care of and a huge boost on the value of the place if you sell. I have batteries and a solar set up. It takes me a half a day twice a month. Checking connections, checking input and output but I am semi anal about mechanical systems.
 
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Old 08-10-20, 11:26 AM
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A battery back up ranges from $500-$1000. Whole home automatic generators are $7-$10,000 in my area.

 
  #13  
Old 08-17-20, 08:14 AM
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Careful here, your pump is 9 amps and the UPS your looking at will last MINUTES. The generator is running your whole house or most of it and runs for HOURS.
A quick look on Amazon I found a $1000.00 CyberPower UPS that says it is 2700w or 3000va it is set up for electronics not a motor starting
This unit will run for 8.5 minutes at 2700w.
Your pump is 9 amps times 120v equals 1080 watts. A couple of minutes of run time max.

I wish the numbers worked better for you. You might gain a bit by changing the system over to DC and buying a battery array sized for the worse case scenario. Even then the expense of change over and the maintenance of the batteries would have to be factored in.
Sorry there is not better news.
 
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