Can't take the pressure problem any longer! Hopefully, somebody can help!
I have a well with a 35 year old galvanized pressure tank. (Approx. 60" H X 20" W). It has a new pressure switch and a new pressure gauge. It is located in the basement of my two story 3500 sq. foot home. I have the pressure gauge set at 40 - 60.
When one fixture in the house is one, the pressure is average (not terrible, but nothing brag about). On the first floor, if a faucet is on and the toilet gets flushed, the faucet's pressure is reduced by 50% (not great). If a 3rd fixture is turned on, the pressure is pretty much not usable. On the second floor, if the same scenario is repeated, it is even worse. I someone is taking a shower on the 2nd floor, and somebody else flushes the toilet on the 1st floor, forget about it! The water drips out of the shower! Now to the garden or anywhere outside.... It's even worse that the 2nd floor.... The garden hose doesn't even have enough pressure to power a mechanical sprinkler!
I have asked and asked and nobody can get a good answer and I believe this is a very common problem. Somebody please help as I am willing to do anything to fix this!
Should I replace the pressure tank?
Should I add a pressure tank in tandem?
Should I replace the well pump?
Should I add a pump on the inside of the house?
What else can I do?
You'll get 15 different opinions but if your system won't deliver the pressure or volume you require.... it is a pump problem. It is not a pressure tank problem. The pressure tank ONLY reduces pump cycling times. It will not help with system pressures or delivery.
What do you currently have for a pump ?
Do you have any detailed information on your well as it may be a yield problem ?
I am attaching the label left on my tank when it was installed. I did a search on the internet and could not find ANY information on that model # except it is very similar to a "Sta-Rite/Pentair".
Model #10KT10221S-01
Installed:6-22-2005
I will try and get a gauge to test my water pressure tomorrow.
Thanks Again!
Jeff
The tank could need replacing but as said a new one will not increase the pressure on your system.
The first place to start is to check the pressure at the pump.
You should have a good pressure guage installed with a few feet of the pump.
The guage will verify that the pump is cycling at the 40 - 60 psi you think it is.
The guage wil also tell you if you have problems with undersized piping or the pump itself is too small.
To check the system allow the pump to build pressure and shut off.
Open one tap at a time and see how the guage reacts..
It will drop as you open taps and exceed the pumps capacity.
It doesn't make a difference. It usually gets installed after the pump and just before the tank but that depends on what you have for fittings. You can post a picture or two of what you have there. How-to-insert-pictures.
How old is the house? Ultimately you may need to check water pressure in several places in case the pipes have arteriosclerosis.
I suggest starting with a garden hose faucet (hose bibb). The drain valve (if you have one) at the pressure tank is another place to do pressure tests. Also the air port (Schrader valve) if any on the galvanized or non-bladder pressure tank. If all of these always give the same pressure reading at the same time then you can chose one of these locations for the remaining tests and ignore the other two.
If an existing mounted pressure gauge and a (perhaps newly bought) hand held pressure gauge attached near it give different readings at the same time then you need to do more gauge testing before you start doing system testing. Here, most likely the exiisting system gauge has gone bad. Allow the gauge closer to a running faucet or the gauge further upstairs to be a little lower.
Hint: A non-bladder, typically galvanized, pressure tank does not go bad except by leaking or having its connection to the water system blocked or clogged.
Hello and thank you again for taking the time!
Here are some photos before I start pressure readings.
When I I took the pictures I just happened to notice the black thing in the front was hissing air and the pressure in the tank was hovering at about 43 psi. After 5 minutes, the pump kicked in and started filling to 60 psi. It only took 15 - 20 seconds to fill. Not sure if that is good or bad..
Also, what is that black thing and what is it's purpose?
Thanks
Jeff
In a non-bladder pressure tank the air cushion is gradually absorbed by the water inside. The air cushion has to be replenished otherwise the system loses efficiency and puts more wear and tear on the pump.
1. Some systems have an extra mechanism that adds a little air to the pressure tank on every pump cycle saving the need to add air manually every month or so. The mechanism is not precise.
2. To avoid holding too much air in the tank there may be a second mechanism to let air out if too much was put in. The black thingy is the second mechanism.
A well pump will have a longer life if it does not have to start and stop frequently. Improvement is had using larger or multiple pressure tanks, but available space will impose a limit.
Maybe you could explain that observation a little more. You said that the black thing was hissing air for 5 minutes then the pump kicked on. Were you drawing water at that time or did the pump kick on by itself? Refilling a tank of that size in 15 to 20 seconds is bad. Probably the tank needs more air but let us know about why the tank refilled in the first place before we go guessing. Were you drawing water?
I've never seen an air bleeder used like that. With these older non bladder type tanks you're better off having more air in the tank than less. I had the same exact tank. I kept a charged air tank next to the storage tank and gave it a shot of air every week. In my opinion.... that black air bleeder should be removed and a schrader valve installed to add future air
The black thing lets out air whenever the air/water boundary is below it.
On most pump cycles the pump will stop after the water level has risen above that point and the black valve will then not let out any more air.
The end result is that most of the time the system will rest with the water level in the pressure tank a little above the black valve (not always precisely the same level each time) which incidentally is not far from the optimum water level.
Yes you can make the pump cycling and water level a little more efficient by removing the add-air mechanism (not shown) and replacing the black valve with a Schrader valve but then there is more manual attention needed, adding air periodically.
The "black thing" should not be there.
As said, it us to allow air to escape from a hot water heating system but it is more of a distraction in helping you solve what is causing your pressure problem.
Aside from your pressure problem you would do well to just replace that obsolete tank with a modern bladder type.
There are uses for that type of tank but it is certainly not needed in your case.
You really need to focus on what your pressure actually is and whether your pump is big enough.
Install a new gauge and let us know what's happening.
Thank you all for responding. I spent a couple hours at the local Home Depot buying fittings so I can install a pressure gauge this weekend. I plan to install the gauge after the tank and get some measurements as suggested by everyone. I will also test the pressures at the fixtures and get measurements and different fixtures are opened.
To explain what happened when I heard the air escape, I can't remember exactly what happened just prior to me going in the basement, but I probably flushed the toilet or something was used. When the air was escaping, the needle an the gauge was right around 42. I can't say for sure if water was drawing as there were others in the house and I wasn't paying to close attention to that. Because I didn't have a timer, I am guessing the air escaping lasted between 3 to 5 minutes. The pump was not on at this time (I was watching). As the air stopped, I heard the pump turn on and a swoosh of water start filling the tank until it hit 60. Again, I THOUGHT it took 15 - 20 second to fill, however I just conducted a timed test. Please let me know what you think now... I ran the faucet until the pump kicked in and then shut the faucet off. The pump kicked on at 43 psi. The pumped continued on until it hit 65 psi (which is where I set it a while ago because the pressure sucked). It took 1 minute and 11 seconds to fill (43-65psi). I am assuming this is too long... Any other thoughts?
Additionally, after it hit 65, the pump stopped and the pressure SLOWLY (10 minutes) went down til it hit 61 where it stopped. Anymore thoughts?
This weekend, I plan to conduct the tests recommended and respond with the results and then come up with the future of the system. Thank you again to everyone!
Performance of the pressure tank is judged by the quantity of water drawn before the pump starts again, not by the time it takes for the pump to restart or the time it takes for the pump to shut off. Your existing system with the black bleed valve and (probably) an air autofill for the pressure tank activated by the pump is imprecise enough that the water drawdown can vary by a few gallons from one cycle to the next.
A typical modern system has a pressure tank of about 30 gallons and a drawdown of about 10 gallons before pump restart.
I ran the faucet until the pump kicked in and then shut the faucet off. The pump kicked on at 43 psi. The pumped continued on until it hit 65 psi (which is where I set it a while ago because the pressure sucked). It took 1 minute and 11 seconds to fill (43-65psi). I am assuming this is too long... Any other thoughts?
No that is a good number. Pump manufacturers recommend at least 1 minute of run time when the pump turns ON. The number of starts is what mostly wears the pump. The longer the run time the better. If your tank was big enough you could run the pump one time per day and put enough water in the tank for the entire day (assuming your well could keep up). That would be great. A tank that big isn’t practical but the idea is the bigger the tank the better.
Space and cost would be the limiting factors for tank size.
The test would be that you operate the pump until it shuts off at its cut-out pressure.
Then open one tap fully and while the water is still running go check the pressure at the pump.
If the pressure at the pump drops your pump is not delivering enough water to satisfy the tap you have running.
One caution is if you replace your pump a higher horse powered pump will not necessarily deliver a higher volume.
You need to check the flow chart which is available for any pump.
I am trying to do as little work as possible to get tests, but I will do more if necessary.
So here are the test results from today... I placed a pressure gauge just after the tank as I didn't have to take anything apart to do so. I made a drawing of the set up, which I will attach.
Steps:
1. I let the tank fill up and pressure gauge #1, which is located on the tank read 64 psi. Pressure Gauge #2, which is located just after the tank read 64 psi.
2. I turned on the kitchen faucet while watching both gauges.
a. The pressure on both gauges went down pretty much equally until the pump cut on at 43 psi. Pressure gauge #2 only went down to about 45 psi.
3. After the pump turned on at 43 psi, both pressure gauges increased at the same rate until it hit it's cut out pressure of 64 psi.
Questions:
1. Does this test even mean anything?
2. Should I cut into the pipe before the tank to install a pressure gauge for additional tests?
3. Should there be a "check valve" right before the tank?
What that tells you is that the pump can maintain 43 psi with the volume of water that is flowing.
If that is a satisfactory flow for you then your pump is doing what you ask of it.
If you again open the same tap and then open up another one, say the hot and cold in a shower you will start to see where the capacity of your pump will no longer supply enough water.
Another consideration is whether or not your piping that supplies the fixtures is big enough.
If you have the interest in checking this you would have to install a gauge right at the fixture.
You would perform the same test when measuring the pressure at the pump but this time you will be looking to see what the pressure drops to at the fixture while the water is running.
Adequately sized piping will see a minimal pressure drop at the fixture.
If the piping is too small then the pressure will drop accordingly.
After 10 years living in this home with no water pressure, I feel like I bought a new home!!
Thank you Thank you Thank you!
What happened??? My water system suffered from a clogged artery and finally had a heart attack!
See picture attached:
The last piece of galvanized pipe was 100% corroded/clogged where it met the brass shut off valve.
This is why my pressure was perfect where I tested at the tank empty valve which occurred before the blockage.
I've got an old septic tank with a 22"x22" concrete lid. The handle has rotted off and the last time the septic tank company came out to clean it, they told me I'd have to replace the handle before they would come out again.
My question is, is there an easy fix for this? I'd rather not have to build a form and pour a whole new lid. Even then I wouldn't know what to use as a handle other than buying stainless steel rod (or even rebar, but how long would that last) and bending into a handle shape and embedding that in the concrete.
Drilling out the existing lid is not problem, but what could I use?
Thanks!
My property has one house, with a second house under construction 300 feet away and approximately 50 feet higher in elevation. I need to use the same well for both houses. The existing house has a 50 gallon pressure tank located at the house. What would be easiest (cheapest) setup to get water to the new house? A single larger pressure tank for both houses at the well? I am in a bit of a sticky situation as some huge unexpected expenses have cropped up during construction (County forcing me to pave the driveway and state forcing me to replace existing septic system with an ATT system) and I'm about of of money for the project.
03-28-21, 01:01 PM
