Would I need a pressurized well tank?


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Old 07-17-21, 03:51 AM
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Would I need a pressurized well tank?

I have a 40 gal well X-Trol tank and a 180 gal holding tank in my main home and need to supply water to a new in-law-apartment addition. I would like to tee off the top of my holding tank in my main home with a 1" line and run it around 80-100 feet to the addition, running this water line that distance would I need to install another X-Trol tank inside the new addition to get the proper water pressure I need?
 
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Old 07-17-21, 10:26 AM
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Assuming the holding tank is unpressurized or low pressure (can drop below 20 PSI) then yes you need another pump and X-trol tank (as a pressure tank and) creating an independent pressurized system for the in law apartment.

If the holding tank is fully pressurized (e.g. 60/40 PSI) then it can yield only about 70 gallons (give or take a bit) of water before the well pump has to come on and "refill" it. Therefore true holding tanks in well systems are unpressurized with the well pump before them and another pump (shallow well grade pump) after them to create a pressurized zone for the house.

You could also feed the apartment from the existing main house water system pressurized zone. You would tee off from the existing X-trol tank although with both dwellings drawing from the same pressurized zone you may have low pressure every so often due to too many persons in both locations combined using water at the same time.
 

Last edited by AllanJ; 07-17-21 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 07-17-21, 05:22 PM
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I have a submersible well pump which feeds my 40 gal pressurized X-Trol tank, my X-Trol tank then fills my 180 gal holding tank which feeds my house, I figured the X-Trol tank keeps my holding tank pressurized. I thought if I tee off the top of the pressurized holding tank to the in-law apartment and then into another pressurized X-trol tank, that should give me 40 or 60 lbs pressure for the apartment, am I correct thinking that way?


 
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Old 07-18-21, 06:13 AM
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Yes, doing it as you originally said, teeing off a line to the in law apartment and putting another X-trol tank in the apartment, will accomplish what you want.

But I have to ask, did you design your system with the 180 gallon tank, or did someone install it for you?

I question the design of your system. It looks to me as if the 180 gallon tank with the outlet on top does not perform any useful function and does not yield any benefits. If there is a power failure while you are showiering, the X-trol pressure tank will release its water (up to 13 gallons with 60/40 pump pressure switching, or 26 gallons for two X-trol tanks wherever located) and then its oomph is gone. There will be 180 gallons in the big tank but no more will come out.because, without power the pump has no oomph either.

You can improve the system by moving the house water supply line from the top to the bottom of the big tank teed (octopussed) with the piping already down there. Add the line to the in law apartment down below also and you will not need an X-trol tank in the apartment. From the point of view of the apartment the incoming line provides its own pressure and behaves as a line from a city or public water system.

Fit a Shrader valve (tire valve) onto the top port of the big tank. You will need that to inject an air cushion into the big tank so that tank can store and release water automatically (including during a power failure) and make itself useful.

Still more improvements can be done, we can discuss those later after you get the in law apartment completed.
 

Last edited by AllanJ; 07-18-21 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 07-18-21, 03:05 PM
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When I built the house we had somewhat bad water, sulfur once in awhile. They told me to put in a holding tank and hook my chlorination system into the line coming out from the X-Trol tank and into the bottom of the holding tank. I guess the reason was to have plenty of clean treated water in the holding tank, they said if I just ran the chlorination system off the feed out of the X-Trol tank it wouldn't give it enough time to treat the water. I'm not sure if they were right or not but I didn't have any dark water after I put in the holding tank and I just changed from the old chlorine system to a new peroxide system last year. If I need to re-pipe the tank a different way it wouldn't be a problem, I have no other way to get water over to the in law apartment without drilling another well.
 
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Old 07-19-21, 03:49 AM
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Now that you mentioned chlorination, I will assume that the holding tank is needed for that purpose and then I say the holding tank should stay as it is.

Go ahead and do as you originally proposed. To be exact the added X-trol tank can go anywhere in the cold water system with no check valves and not likely to be shut off from the rest of the system., The best location is next to the first X-trol tank. With two dwelling units drawing from the same well, the second X-trol tank will reduce the need for the pump to start and stop frequently (more wear and tear) when more persons are using water at the same time..


When the X-trol tanks need to be inspected, it is best for both to be set to the same pressure at the same time. Find a time when the pump is about to start and system pressure is near the low point, typically near 40 PSI. Turn off the pump. Open a cold faucet and drain out the remaining pressure. Then add or subtract air from the X-trol tanks as needed to get to a few PSI less than pump start pressure.
 

Last edited by AllanJ; 07-19-21 at 04:10 AM.
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Old 07-19-21, 08:42 AM
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Maybe this is something you could do first, before you do the hook-up as Allan suggests, in order to gain some more information.

You might think this is a little extreme, but if it were me I would buy a 100 roll of that 1 block poly pipe. I think its about $45. I would use a tee fitting and connect the black poly to the top of the holding tank as you are planning to do.

I would then connect a ball valve to the other end of the black poly pipe.

You could then simulate water usage in the apartment by opening and closing the ball valve to varying degrees, at various time intervals, to see how the entire system responds to the new added demand. You could also couple the simulated apartment-demand with simultaneous usage of water in the main house to see what happens.

It seems to me that would give you an idea of viability of your plan.

Never did that myself however. So maybe others would see a flaw in that idea.

One thing though, is the holding tank fed by a 1 pipe, or has it already been reduced to 3/4? If its already been reduced to 3/4 then I dont think you would use a 1 pipe to the apartment at least not from the holding tank.


 
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Old 07-19-21, 04:08 PM
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AllenJ/zoesdad... You're saying that I would need 2 X-Trol tanks side by side in the in the main house? That would give me enough pressure for a shower, toilet, vanity sink, and kitchen sink and washer in the apartment? Would I lose any pressure running the 1" line 100' to the apartment? I've never tried anything like this before so it's going to be a live and learn situation to see if it'll work or not. What would happen if I was to just tee off the holding tank and have that line feed an X-Trol in the apartment itself, would I be defeating my purpose?

Yes, I already have a 1" line going from the main house into the apartment.
 
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Old 07-20-21, 06:08 AM
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How about this:

Since you already have the 1 inch line in place, go ahead and hook it up to the top of the holding tank with an apartment submaster shutoff valve and no other changes. Now you can do the tests Zoesdad suggested with a faucet at the in law apartment (temporarily attached to the end of the 100' line at the apartment if the rest of the plumbing is not done yet).

Later you can decide whether you want an X-trol tank out there.

I suggested the second X-trol tank next to the first to provide more volume, not more pressure. That is, more water draw before the pump has to start the next cycle. Less frequent pump starts, even with longer run time, puts less wear and tear on the pump. The system pressure will stay the same 60/40 or whatever you were using.


 
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Old 07-20-21, 03:37 PM
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I understand it a little better now, does the new X-trol have to be right next to the old one before the holding tank? I might have to move a few things around so I have space to put one in next to the other against the wall. I'm just in the process of running my septic line then I'll hook up the water line.
 
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Old 07-21-21, 05:45 AM
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A second X-trol tank, no matter where it is located, will benefit the pump so long as there is no check valve or closed valve in between. But some water softeners and other water treatment equipment may have or need check valves.

It is okay for there to be several feet of pipe from the bottom of the second X-trol tank to where it is teed into the water system, depending on where it is convenient to place the X-trol tank.

I did a small amount of research which confirms that some pressure drop occurs over a long water line. (For those with electrical experienced, think: voltage drop.)

The number 3 PSI loss at the far end of a 100 foot line was mentioned. Yes, the pressure difference at the in law apartment would depend on the thickness of the line and the amount of flow in gallons per minute and also elevation such as measuring on the second floor. At any rate, a normal well pump system pressure varies during use, typically between 40 and 60 PSI, so another 3 PSI added to the mix would be unnoticeable in most cases.

When no one is using water, the pressure (except for elevation differences) will equalize at both dwellings. It is not guaranteed that an X-trol tank in the apartment will get all the way to 60 PSI on every pump cycle.
 

Last edited by AllanJ; 07-21-21 at 06:07 AM.
 

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