My above ground jet pump was converted to a submersible system last spring. I always used a ceramic heater to keep it unfrozen when I'm away most of the winter (northern Minnesota), but now there's nothing in the pump house more than a few inches above ground, so I wonder if that will work. It also has an artesian overflow. It used to have a valve so I could shut off the house line but it appears that they removed it and I never paid attention until now. So now I'm doubly concerned. If the overflow were to freeze or get clogged somehow the water would flow into the house. There is a shutoff valve in the crawlspace, but when I leave that won't be heated either. The pressure tank is also in the crawlspace. I'm kinda pissed, at them and at me for not noticing these things sooner.

 

Do you have a question we can help with?

The pump down in the well is safe but anything containing water above the frost line will need to be protected against freezing.

 

Where is the check valve?
Is the well directly below the crawlspace?
Pretty hard to help without more info about the system.
May be best to get someone who knows the local situation to take a look at it.

 

The well is in an external insulated pumphouse. My question is how best to keep anything wet from freezing. Not sure if I have to worry about the well casing itself, which extends a few inches above ground, but I sure wouldn't want anything to happen to it. Two lines come out of it, one to the house and one to the overflow line in the woods. Both are only 4 to 6 inches above the ground, hence my concern about whether a space heater is still the best thing to use. I suppose I can use heat tape but have never used that before so I'm completely unfamiliar with it. I want to be able to go away and not worry!

 

Where is the check valve? Good question. Wish I had an answer

 

I would use heat tape. You would be using a product for it's intended purpose... and the tape will use a lot less electricity.

 

Yea the heater was costing me a lot, which I didn't understand until I brought it inside today to test the thermostat. It wants to turn on at room temperature, at just slightly above the lowest setting. That's a good 20 degrees warmer than it needs to be.

How do I know how much tape I need? The two pipes are separate, do I need two of them?

 

"How do I know how much tape I need? "
You measure. You will be attaching the heat tape to anything you want to protect. So, 4' of pipe exposed above ground will need a 4' long heat tape.

"The two pipes are separate, do I need two of them?"
Do you want to protect both? If so then yes, you need to put heat tape on what you want to protect from freezing.

Also get enough pipe insulation to completely and thoroughly insulate both pipes after you have installed the heat tape. I attach heat tape with a zip tie every 4'-6". Then I cover it all with properly sized foam pipe insulation. Then I put a layer of foil faced fiberglass insulation on top (belt and suspenders).

 

Do you want to protect both? If so then yes, you need to put heat tape on what you want to protect from freezing.

Well I thought perhaps I could use one. They both come out of the same well cap so there would only be a few inches gap where the tape isn't heating anything.

 

I would use a separate, independent tape heater on each pipe. The heat tapes have a thermostat you fasten to the side of the pipe. A pipe full of water will absorb heat differently than a pipe that might be empty. Heat tapes are about $20 for something 3-6' long so it's not a lot of money to go with two of them but you can get a longer one and wrap both.

 

I purchased one at Menards last night. Reading the instructions it says "only to be used on water-filled pipes". Says do not use on empty pipes.

Guess its back to the drawing board. I cannot predict if or when either of these pipes will have any water in them, but I can predict neither is likely to be "water-filled"

They only carry one kind, the only difference in various models is length.

 

I talked to the installer. They said they took the shutoff valve out because if you shut off the line between the well and pressure tank when its on, it will blow the pump. But they agreed that it could flow into the house without one. So now I have to crawl inside a tiny box and install a freaking shutoff
in 30 degree temps. Then I still need to solve the heat problem which will probably mean going back to the space heater

 

I was able to get them to come back and install a shutoff valve on the line to the house, and a valve so I can blow out the line. So I'm back to addressing the heat problem.

I've just discovered tiny space heaters. My previous one was probably a 1500 watt, but I wonder if I will save energy by using this 200 watt that I bought at Best Buy? It uses less power obviously but might run longer each time it cycles on. I'm planning to use a short extension cord and a temperature controlled outlet that turns on at 35 and shuts off at 45. I will place the outlet a couple inches below the pipes

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lasko-m...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

Is there any reason this won't work just as well or better/more efficiently than the 1500 watt heater?

 

Ok..... with electric heat there is no efficiency rating. If you put in 200 watts of power you get 200 watts of heat. The same for 1500 watts. There is no loss up a chimney. You got 100% of the wattage in as heat.

Will 200 watts keep a shed in Minnesota above freezing in the winter........ highly doubtful.
If the shed was well insulated.... maybe.

When you have an area.... or shed.... that needs to be kept from freezing..... you use a large heater and put it on a thermostat. In my mind..... the 200 watter will probably run continuously and may not keep up with the cold while the 1500 watter will cycle and should stay warm.

 

I would build a very small and very well insulated cover over the piping and well head. Heating a human sized shed will be difficult and expensive but keeping a small, well insulated box warm is much simpler. I would still consider using pipe heat tape on metallic piping and pipes you know will be filled with water.

 

My situation was a little different in that my heater was shut off when we were not at the cabin.
So I used a car heater that was about 1000 watts. I knew that a car heater's fan will turn on at 40 below where most heaters will not.
The space was about 64 cubic feet. It was insulated with a double layer of 3/4 inch pink styrofoam. I used a double so that seams would be overlapped.
I also wired it into a wall thermostat in the box. The thermostat ran the heater and a neon bulb/indicator in my bathroom. So the indicator told me when the heater was on. If after an hour or so the indicator did not go off I knew I had a problem in the box. I also kept an eye on it to be sure the heater was cycling.

Before this set up I had 3 heat tapes protecting the pipes. One year two of them went out so I ended up playing/replacing sewage lines in the middle of winter.
Definitely not fun when you have ABS pipe, aluminum wrap and fiberglass insulation, plastic wrap and last but not least sewage. Lots and lots of sewage.
That spring the boxes were built.

 

My well is in an insulated box about 3x4x3 feet, and that box is in the shed. With the lower pipes since they removed the jet pump and installed the submersible I only need to heat about the lower 12 to 18 inches of that space.

 

Its artesian so I can't predict if they will ever be "full", I just know there is usually "some" water coming through.

 

This is the kind of thing I'm wondering about. I do think the 200 watt heater will heat the small insulated space it needs to keep above freezing, but will it just run 5 times as much as the 1000 watt? That is the crux of the question...

 

What's the difference ? It will take xx amount of heat to heat the box.