Girlfriend just bought a house, which has a well and septic. I noticed today that the red "high" light on her septic panel is illuminated. I manually switched the pump on ("hand" position) for a couple minutes, but the light remained on. When checking outside, I only see a single rider, which is concrete and cylindrical in shape. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to septic systems. Is there a way to tell if she has an aerator pump or a septic pump? Does it make a difference? If it's a septic pump, wouldn't running it for two minutes lower the water level enough to turn the high level alarm off? I'm guessing I'll need to take a peak inside to find out what really is the issue. The concrete lid looks pretty heavy. Is there a trick to getting it off?
When you switched to manual...... did you actually hear the pump run ?
It could take more than a few minutes to lower a high tank level.
The control panel should be labeled with what it controls.
There should be paperwork for the septic system.
Paperwork for septic systems and wells is something I tell my customers they must get when buying a home. I would consider a deduction if those documents were not presented.
I heard a hum inside the panel, which could mean the pump is seized? I'll be taking a closer look to see if I hear the pump outside and maybe try to force the lid to the side a bit so I can peak inside. The lot has at least a 10 to 15 degree slope to it, so I'm confused as to why a pump is even needed.
Should also mention that the ground is pretty saturated this time of year and the soil is heavily clay, which I'm sure doesn't help with drainage.
Also, there are six electrical cables coming into/out of the panel. That's a couple more than I expected. The green "power" lamp isn't on, but the panel clearly has power. Probably just a burned out bulb?
I also suspect the pump has failed. I would recommend getting a septic guy out to pump the tank(s) and then troubleshoot after the tanks are empty. No reason to pump all that water/stuff to the drain field all at once.
Okay, popped the lid and the pump is good. Looks like the high level float is stuck in the on position. The tank is basically empty (I can see the entire pump). The other two floats (low level alarm and pump on/off I'm guessing) look like they're okay, but should probably be replaced as well. I had my girlfriend flush a toilet and I could hear water trickling into the tank (presumably the first compartment). Curious thing is the drain from the house enters the downhill side of the tank and the outlet of the pump exits the uphill side of the tank. I'm guessing the ejection pipe does a u-turn and enters the drain field facing downhill.
Are ejection pumps typically on timers or do they only run when needed (controlled by the middle float switch)? If on a timer, I would think I'd need to fill the pump side with water so it doesn't run dry. Also confused as to why there is a need for a low level switch if the pump is not on a timer.
Septic tanks are equipped with outlet pumps and timers when the drain field is able to absorb (perc) only X number of gallons in a given time period.
Float switches without timers are used when the drain field does not have an unusually low absorption rate The pump comes on whenever needed.
Show us a picture or diagram of the uphill and downhill ends of the septic tank and the positions of the house and drain field. The drain line from the house to the septic tank should have as few bends as is practical and the septic tank oriented to achieve this..
Since you've confirmed three floats.... you have a float controlled system..... not timer.
The upper most float is the high level float.
The middle float is the "pump start" float.
The lower float is the "pump stop" float.
Is the upper most float hanging ?
Sometimes the floats will get hung up with each other.
Okay, makes sense. Here's a pic of the inside . Three floats hanging from the horizontal discharge pipe at different heights. Looks easy enough to replace the float, but not something I care to do. Right side of the pic is facing uphill.
Here's a pic of the side of the house. The clean out for the house drain is over to the right next to the downspout, so I'm assuming the pipe drains into the tank on the right side. The discharge pump is right beneath the access riser to the left. I do not see an access on the right side, which is puzzling. Must be buried?
Any reason to replace the panel? I can easily replace the burned out power lamp. The alarm bell doesn't work properly. It's pretty muffled, but I could likely replace it as well or repair it.
The buzzing noise is the alarm relay trying to energize. The contacts are chattering rapidly. Doesn't look like like it's easily replaced (no mourning screws visible from the front), so I may just leave it alone or maybe mount a new relay beside it. First step is getting the alarm float replaced in case that is causing the relay to not energize fully (e.g. there is enough current to trip the alarm light but not enough to energize the relay due to deteriorated float switch contacts).
A typical "high level" float connects directly to the "high level" indicator with no relay. No relay is required as the indicator is very low current. Different story if there is a "high level" audible involved..... although still very low current.
I can see the relay contacts chattering, and it only happens when the alarm is turned on. I'll snap a couple photos and post them when I get a chance. Here's the relay (not that it helps much). Inside the panel is a circuit breaker for the pump, a large relay (also for the pump I'm assuming), a smaller relay for the alarm bell, and a bunch of wire terminals and connections.
Many modern panels have done away with relays for residential sized systems. Instead they rely on the switch contacts in the float switches to do the work. If you decide to replace the control box make sure you shop carefully. There are more than a few variations. Each designed to meet the specific code requirements of that area and septic systems used there.
That said, I like an old panel with components that can be individually replaced. Even if a direct replacement for your relay can't be found you should be able to find something that will work.
Just for fun have you disconnected the bell when the system is in alarm to see if that stops the relay from chattering?
I'd prefer to fix this panel. I also like the more serviceable ones. I haven't disconnected the bell. I'll do that and see what happens. Although I wouldn't think the load on the relay would cause the contacts to bounce. I plan on temporarily feeding 120V directly to the relay coil to see if the switch contacts hold. If that resolves the chatter, then I'll know the relay is good.
I fiddled around in the panel a little more this evening and found that the voltage to the relay coil drops to 55V when I turn the alarm toggle switch to the on position. The red alarm LED also turns off. And the voltage on the white wire from what is presumably the alarm float drops to 55V. The black wire to the alarm float remains at 120V. If I'm interpreting things correctly, it seems like the alarm float is making enough contact to either illuminate the red light or make the relay chatter, but not good enough contact for things to work properly. I have a guy coming out Saturday to replace the float, so hopefully that fixes it. Guess it could also be a loose wire in the outdoor junction box, so I'll have him check that too.
Floats are highly limited to pass thru current. I would not recommend switching any pump thru a hanging float. I always keep pass thru current under 1A.
Hard to give you much help with your panel without seeing detailed wiring pictures.
Wiring diagram would be extremely helpful.
It would be typical if the home inspector said nothing about no paperwork.
I don't believe the pump is wired through the float. It seems like the alarm relay coil is though. If all the wires weren't zip tied, I would trace everything out and draw a wiring diagram. I'll start with checking the junction box outside, then the float, and it should become obvious.
Had the float replaced today (all three actually) and all is good now. Had the check valve replaced too because it was leaking. I was also shocked to see the guy nonchalantly enter the tank in his blue jeans and sweatshirt and a pair of rain boots. Not something I would ever want to do!
I have a submersible well pump that feeds the house with water. The pump pit is just below my driveway and the pitless adapter is about 25 inches below the top of the 6" well pipe that goes down into the ground. Right now the well pit is filled in with gravel and dirt but my problem is some of the macadam that covers the area around the pit is breaking up. Also whenever the pump goes on I see water develop in the pit. I'm not sure where that leak is coming from and my question is that something I should worry about? The leak seems to be coming from under the ground where the water pipe goes toward the house. When the pump goes on only a small amount of water collects in the pit. I want to black top it over but I don't want to have to keep doing it if that leak is going to continue eating away the soil. Thanks for any input.
Is there a system that prevents bio-mass from happening. I’ve been told that my leaching field is likely saturated with a biomass that prevents the system to properly leaching the effluent from the D box. Last June I had it pumped and checked because it was backing up to the house. When they opened the tank covered the tank was to the top of the lid. The house pipe, I was told, should never contain waste as the outlet pipe from the tank is lower than the inlet pipe.
I had the D box dug up (10’ deep) and they jetted and vacc’d the drain field the best they could and put 5 gallon bucket of chemical in the D box and pumped the tank dry to let the chemical do its thing. They said no garantees on this style repair. They wanted to dig up and replace the leech field but said the code has changed from 1000gallon tank to a 1500 gallon tank 3 years after the house was built. They said any change in the system must be upgraded to the new code which means an entirely new system and field... Really???
My house to tank pipe is about 1/2 full if the wife does two laundry loads. It may completly fill the house to tank pipe, and start going up past the gauge I installed, ...know this because I drilled and tapped a 1/4” vinyl tube with a trap on the cleanout plug in the house. My tank is just a single box, the tank outlet trap is intact, and soild concrete moulded inas part of the tank. Its just been me and the wife and the kids may come home for a month or two, we pump out every 2 to three years, easy on 5he bleach, no scraps in the sinc and no grease.
I now hear of people using an air pump to get the effluent almost clear as drinking water before leaving the tank and it is completely aerobic. Would this eliminate the biomass situation. To try keep my tank as clean as possible, I even installed a filter on the discharge of the washing machine to catch non-bio lint or hair. The system was installed in 1993. Please address the several questions I have if you could. Ive heard of fracking the leaching field with air , but I also heard its illegal in some states.
02-26-22, 09:07 PM
